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Tennessee Blue Mike
Player Valuation: £50m
Wise words Monty. I'm over we need to bring players along slowly. We need their abilities to benefit the club and so far he has shown great strides in that department. I would always play my most in form players no matter what.
Dead on. He's shown in the brief glimpses that he could be the RB were screaming out for and deserves a start.
When his form dips or he plays awful then bring Hibbert or Neill in for his place. Not all that complicated really.
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bluebastardo
Player Valuation: £40m
Moyes will shock a lot of people if he takes a chance on the young lad against Arsenal. He normally plays things rather predictably regarding selection. Really don't see it happening, but it would help him decide on options in the transfer window if he did, especially if the lad held it together. No longer would he need to look at signing a player for that position.
Think He'll start Tony against Arsenal but with Neill playing RB and not having a great deal of career left, this Donegal cat might be a super piece of timing and save some money.
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Blue Truth
Player Valuation: £25m
are you saying hibbo CB Neill RB :s
TheDevils2001
Player Valuation: £15m
Makes all the difference mate!
May I remind you Benfica he was playing LB, it's not his natural position, so it doesn't count to be honest, it only benefit him experience wise, that's it.
Also, there is a saying, "You only get lucky once or twice in a role, but third in a role called consistency!"
Now, when is the last time you see Hibbert or Baines plays well three times in a role? Not often or hardly any, base on that I think it well worth giving him couple of games.
Rugby Toffee
Player Valuation: £60m
We will never know until Moyes shows some bottle and gives him a run.
TheDevils2001
Player Valuation: £15m
I can see you are trying to make a point here, but I have to apologize to you first, as I do not feel it was a fair judgment on the lad, although you do have some point theory whilst, but looks like your theory is derived from insufficient data back-up.
Why is that? Quite simply you had made judgment base on Spurs game alone.
In theory he had played four games for us, although I won't count his performance in Benfica game as he is played in not his natural position, but experience whilst do count, as, he now knows what is require to play against top team and more importantly he is mentally strong after such a big defeat, which lead upto yet another strong performance against Spurs.
So, I do not believe it would have a negative effect on the lads, even we did badly against Arsenal, I believe it would make him stronger.
Bate is a pretty good team and with our strongest first string at the time, we only just manage to win 2:1, yet on the return game we fielded our second string, Coleman still able to often us offensive support while doing his defensive duty.
Remember we don't have Pienaar who normally start our attack and hold up the ball for us, yet, Coleman could still find space to come up to support attack when possible.
Even though they are out of the competition but they are still playing for there pride and did not go easy on us, and they are all pacy and offensively strong as well, yet, they find it difficult to get past Coleman and choose to attack Bidwell side instead, which says a lot, his defensive skill are more than reasonable.
Carlisle I won't say much, but even though they are league One side, but they are all professional and on there day and us being below par, could easily match us or more, but look at what happen when Coleman comes on he bring more energy into the side.
You might argue 80 mins been played and he is full of energy, but when you think about it, Carlisle is probably giving one of there best performance of the season and are setting to find the winning goal or at least a replay, would be easy to get past even Coleman is full of energy? Man Utd vs. Leeds game is a good example with Valencia.
You were also saying Arsenal would have the quality to pin Baines down and at the same time Arshavin would cause Coleman problem, which is true, but doesn't that mean we should too have player that could cause problem on both side?
No doubt, Arsenal would be better than us over the art of passing & attacking football, but better doesn't necessary mean would win each time against a team who are not as good at doing the same thing, there are other factors which would effect the outcome, that is why there is a theory "football is round and anything could happen in football."
Hibbert might be better defensively but Arshavin is fast and skillful, let's say he could just about cope with him most of the game, but he often little in attack and Baines are pin down, doesn't that mean we are just hoping for a draw but likely to be a defeat.
Natural ability Coleman is better, particular his pace which would allow him to recover from mistake and harder to get past, plus he could offer more in attack supporting, which widen the playing field and offer more space for Baines to come up as well.
It might be less effective against Arsenal compare to Spurs, but it is all to do with negativity and positivity, if we are going with Hibbert then we are always going for a draw and likely to be a defeat, but with Coleman is more positive, there is a chance we could win the match, although it could well only be a draw or even defeat. Do you see the difference?
Squad depth and number of quality player has it's effect, but the biggest difference between Top side and good side like us, is there approach to the game.
Top side would always field who ever available and enter the game with a game plan to win the game, not avoiding defeat and hoping for a draw.
You might say Confidence is a important factor, everyone is down when result doesn't go there way, but Top team forget about it and aim to win the next match, look what sort of start Man Utd & Arsenal had this season and where do they stand now?
I am not saying bad result doesn't matter, we should always reflect on the mistake and also get better understanding with team mate and build up better bond, and we should stay positive because staying positive is what going to lead to more positive result. That's the biggest difference between us and the top side.
Another thing you must remember we are already impress with Coleman's performance when the team are clearly lacking form, confidence & quality. What would he be like when everything back to normal? How effective he would be over the whole team performance?
Positive approach is the way forward and it is all about mind game and psychologic approach. The reason why we won against Carlisle is all to do with the positive approach at the end, when Moyes put Coleman on.
Why? It would be fresh in the players mind, the crosses Coleman made in the Spurs game and more importantly things are working better when Coleman is on the field.
That's is why, when Coleman came on, there was a sudden burst of energy from all the player, because they feel this could work, if Coleman & Baines both could come up and put quality crosses in, one of us could get on the end of the ball, and win this game.
You might even argue, then wouldn't it better to used Coleman in the last 20~30 mins, wouldn't that be most effective way to used him at the moment?
True, it may be and I do feel this should be the approach we should used once Neill are available to play RB again, but with injure problem that is not possible. That is why I feel at the moment, playing Coleman is going to lead to a positive approach and a way to boost confidence.
There is so much I could say about psychological approach, it might take all day, so I should stop here. But basically this is how I feel playing Coleman in the mean time, is best for us in the short-run & long-run.
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David Moyes is impressed with the way in which Seamus Coleman has handled his progression to the Everton first team.
Coleman has emerged as an exciting talent this season, helping to turn the Blues' fortunes in games against Spurs before Christmas and Carlisle last weekend.
The Irishman's calmness and ability to take the big stage in his stride has impressed his manager.
"I think Seamus is the one we are really pleased for," Moyes told evertonTV.
"He seems to go into games and nothing fazes him, even when you look back to his first game against Benfica.
"I've never really had any worries about Seamus, he's positive and because of that it outweighs any negative things that might happen the other way, so good on the boy."
But it's not just Coleman to emerge from the youth ranks and impress his manager recently. James Vaughan has two goals in two games after recovering from a knee problem and Kieran Agard won the penalty that lead to Everton's third goal in the 3-1 win over the Cumbrians.
"Vaughany read the situation well and the way he rounded the goalkeeper was excellent," reflected Moyes.
"Seamus came on and then Kieran came on and actually helped us get the win so it's good.
"It's one thing we can't be faulted for; we give young players opportunities and because of that they reward you.
"They have taken their chances well. It's never easy with young boys because on Saturday we basically had eleven seniors on the pitch and after that, when you look behind you to the bench, it's the youngsters. Sometimes it's not the sort of game where you can put them on to win you the game.
"The way they have performed is great for their confidence and belief as well."
Coleman has emerged as an exciting talent this season, helping to turn the Blues' fortunes in games against Spurs before Christmas and Carlisle last weekend.
The Irishman's calmness and ability to take the big stage in his stride has impressed his manager.
"I think Seamus is the one we are really pleased for," Moyes told evertonTV.
"He seems to go into games and nothing fazes him, even when you look back to his first game against Benfica.
"I've never really had any worries about Seamus, he's positive and because of that it outweighs any negative things that might happen the other way, so good on the boy."
But it's not just Coleman to emerge from the youth ranks and impress his manager recently. James Vaughan has two goals in two games after recovering from a knee problem and Kieran Agard won the penalty that lead to Everton's third goal in the 3-1 win over the Cumbrians.
"Vaughany read the situation well and the way he rounded the goalkeeper was excellent," reflected Moyes.
"Seamus came on and then Kieran came on and actually helped us get the win so it's good.
"It's one thing we can't be faulted for; we give young players opportunities and because of that they reward you.
"They have taken their chances well. It's never easy with young boys because on Saturday we basically had eleven seniors on the pitch and after that, when you look behind you to the bench, it's the youngsters. Sometimes it's not the sort of game where you can put them on to win you the game.
"The way they have performed is great for their confidence and belief as well."
StDomingosGringo
Player Valuation: £10m
Devils mate, I'm not quite sure why you've quoted me here but I'll happily answer you although your first paragraph nearly made me not bother. Insufficient data backup? We're talking football here not systems analysis in an IT department.
I'm not basing my opinion on solely the Spurs game but, as I mentioned, it has been held up as proof that Coleman can do a job for 90 minutes against top class opposition by other posters. I just pointed out the flaws in that. The truth is unless you're a Sligo fan none of us have really seen enough of Coleman to make such sweeping judgements. Believe me I want him to be boss and replace Hibbo in the near future but lets just rein the enthusiasm in a wee bit eh?
No-one counts him playing at leftback against Benfica (except you want to count it for his bouncing back qualities?) but neither can you elevate a distinctly average (and that's me being kind) eliminated BATE side and a plucky but very limited Carlisle to the standard of the Premiership.
But the biggest stretch is when you say playing Hibbert is setting the team out to play for a draw. That's just bollocks. Successful manangers start with a strong defensive platform no matter how important fullbacks are offensively in today's game with the current trend in 451 type formations. Our fullbacks will have their hands full whoever gets to play and their primary task will be stifling Arsenals attacking talent. That is not being negative or defeatist, it's being realistic. Le Arse are an excellent side, in great form and they are at home.
If you think Coleman will have lots of opportunities to go maurading down the flanks at the Emirates then you are deluded my friend. Any result we get (and I believe we can get one) will have to be earned all over the park with commitment and concentration not gungho Keeganesque tactics.
The most of the rest of your post you seem to be you pointing out all the flaws in your own statements. Classic.
I repeat I want Coleman to be starting games soon, but if we've got the option (and it looks like we won't) I personally wouldn't start him against Arsenal. Coleman may have a stormer, I really hope he does but he could also be torn a new arsehole. I know which is more likely and I'm one of the most optimistic bastards on GOT.
I'm not basing my opinion on solely the Spurs game but, as I mentioned, it has been held up as proof that Coleman can do a job for 90 minutes against top class opposition by other posters. I just pointed out the flaws in that. The truth is unless you're a Sligo fan none of us have really seen enough of Coleman to make such sweeping judgements. Believe me I want him to be boss and replace Hibbo in the near future but lets just rein the enthusiasm in a wee bit eh?
No-one counts him playing at leftback against Benfica (except you want to count it for his bouncing back qualities?) but neither can you elevate a distinctly average (and that's me being kind) eliminated BATE side and a plucky but very limited Carlisle to the standard of the Premiership.
But the biggest stretch is when you say playing Hibbert is setting the team out to play for a draw. That's just bollocks. Successful manangers start with a strong defensive platform no matter how important fullbacks are offensively in today's game with the current trend in 451 type formations. Our fullbacks will have their hands full whoever gets to play and their primary task will be stifling Arsenals attacking talent. That is not being negative or defeatist, it's being realistic. Le Arse are an excellent side, in great form and they are at home.
If you think Coleman will have lots of opportunities to go maurading down the flanks at the Emirates then you are deluded my friend. Any result we get (and I believe we can get one) will have to be earned all over the park with commitment and concentration not gungho Keeganesque tactics.
The most of the rest of your post you seem to be you pointing out all the flaws in your own statements. Classic.
I repeat I want Coleman to be starting games soon, but if we've got the option (and it looks like we won't) I personally wouldn't start him against Arsenal. Coleman may have a stormer, I really hope he does but he could also be torn a new arsehole. I know which is more likely and I'm one of the most optimistic bastards on GOT.
TheDevils2001
Player Valuation: £15m
StDomingosGringo, man I quoted you not because I have anything against you, but as it happen your post was the latest one on, why we shouldn't play Coleman against Arsenal, so I quoted you carry on what I wanted to say on this issue.
While I was at it I simply included generally the possible query you might have on what I am saying, so i don't know what all this talk from you about saying all the flaw in my own statement, I basically answer what was coming before it comes.
I would apologize for assuming you are saying things base on Spurs game alone, but to hell you do sound like you were or you were saying everyone else is base on the merit of the Spurs game alone.
I am not trying to be bias or anything, but I would say it for the Arsenal game, playing Hibbert against them meaning we are playing for a draw and if we are playing Coleman we are aiming for a possible win, even if it is only 10% of that would be happening.
I am absolutely not joking and it's quite easy to see if we are playing 4-5-1 we are already playing very defensive against Arsenal, and for us to get a goal or more, we did need attacking support from both full-back, yet, with Hibbert you would hardly or never get much of a support, with Coleman you did still had a chance.
I am not saying Coleman would be flying down the wing all day long against Arsenal, that was not the case for him against Spurs, Bates or Carlisle either. But the point is he did still get couple of chances to go down the byline against Arsenal just like he did with other matches, and it all about how he take those opportunities and that coule be a difference between losing, drawing or winning this match.
One things I would comment directly to what you think, you are saying the great manager start with great defensive platform, which is correct, then you say no matter how important offensive capability to the full back in the modern game, defensive capability comes first.
Which is correct up to certain extent, but what happen if your full-back has next to nothing when it comes to attacking capability, that would mean your full-back is not good enough, the perfect modern full-back is someone who are decent enough in defending but also could attack, right?
Baines is probably the closest to what we need as a full-back and how do you compare Hibbert to him? Are they similar or Coleman is closer?
You just stress the importance of a full back to be able to attack but also could defend, but Hibbert could only do one of them well and other not so good. While Coleman could attack but could also defend up to certain extent.
That is why if we had to defend for 80% of the time and only had 20% of the time to attack then we need players who could take up this opportunities to score in the very few chances we did get. The problem is we don't know when they would appear and that is why playing Coleman from the beginning would increase chances of us taking it.
I can see you wanted Coleman to have more chances to play, so I won't go much further as what we are all saying are base of prediction of what might happen and it just a discussion and I just want to explore the possibility and that is what I think about the difference between playing Hibbert or Coleman.
ToxtethBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
We lack creativity in abundance, that has been clear all season. With the exception of Steven Pienaar we have a team that lacks invention, creativity and to be honest, bottle. And I don't mean putting there foot in and getting stuck in, I mean getting there foot on the ball, trying to be creative and having a go.
Tony Hibbert sums that up for me, he's always passing on responsibility and is unwilling to even try something different. And as you said we play 4-5-1, in this system you need your fullbacks to attack. It's not like we have pacy, out and out wingers, we play with centre midfielders outwide. These players need support, an outlet on the overlap. Pienaar gets it with Baines, the same can not be said of anyone who plays ahead of Hibbert.
He's one of the most limited footballers in the Premier League and he's far from the solid defender he's made out to be. And it's been clear for a good few years now, he's not good enough to be commanding a regular place in the side.
It's time for a change and I don't really care if it's Phil Neville, Lucas Neill or Seamus Coleman, all three of them offer far more (as an all round package) than Tony Hibbert. It's likely that anyone who plays right back will have a tough game at Arsenal, that's expected, but if we have any ambition in terms of progression then we've got to get away from this hit and hope mentality, we need proper footballers, players with composure.
I'd much rather see us have a go and get beaten 3-0 than see us sit back for 90 minutes, constantly hoof the ball, show no composure whatsoever and end up with a lucky 1-0 defeat.
The best form of defence is attack, retaining possession and stopping Arsenal from dominating. All the top teams do it, and that's what we should be aiming for. We might not do it, but I can take far more positives from that than a 1-0 loss where we are in our own half for most of the game.
B
best little spaniard
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Could we keep it down to a few sentences per post. Thank you.
Oh yes, i'd like to see coleman more, but maybe not against arsenal.
there you go, that's not so difficult
Oh yes, i'd like to see coleman more, but maybe not against arsenal.
there you go, that's not so difficult
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