Everton annual accounts

[Dymak]

What if that tv deal and player sales is being used to pay debt.

Even though the accounts showed a profit, we had a minus cash flow. Only that new loan we took out gave us some capital to play with. Net debt is still the same, maybe the sales and tv deal is being used to pay the payday loans we have and leaving some money as cashflow.

I think you are trying too hard to make excuses for them. The payday loans are nothing new, and they are re-paid in full each year, even in years were a loss has been made, and player sales have had to be made in order to cover the loss.

There was no loss in the last year, we didn't have to sell players to cover a loss this summer, but we sold players anyway which means there should be money available. We have never needed to sell players to cover bridging loans in the past, so I don't see why we would now.

We are in the best financial shape we have been in years, the idea that we are now withholding millions of pounds worth of cash in order to prevent a small cash flow problem when the remainder of the biggest TV deal in history is coming our way in the summer doesn't sound very likely to me.

 

[Tubey]

We sold Fellaini for £27m, Anichebe for £6m. Since then we bought McCarthy for £13m and possibly spent £8m on three loan players in Deulofeu, Barry, and Lukaku. That leaves £12m. Then we sold Jelavic for at least £5m basic. That's £17m. McGeady in for say £2m leaves £15m, then maybe a £2m at a big stretch for the Traore loan. That still leaves £13m from player trading and that is even with very pessimistic loan estimates.

It's a joke.

That's the worst case scenario as well - £13m at the very least, before TV money.

OK, incorporate Baines' signing on fees or whatever etc. etc. but there's no way to massage the numbers and come up with anything less than £15m IMO - and realistically there should be £20m.

 

[Moomin]

We've made £30m more this season from the new TV deal, why would all that be offered as collateral ?

Maybe, we might not have the bridging loan on the next year accounts. The extra TV money we have received so far has enabled us to pay the vibrac loan and enabled us to not renew it.

Its the sensible thing to do.

 

[Minimeister]

That's not his point - he's saying that they've been weakened and have immediately set about to strengthen as they've identified a weakness.

If Newcastle hadn't sold Cabaye they wouldn't need to strengthen. However, if Cabaye had been injured, they would have went out and looked to strengthen the squad in my opinion. That's the difference with us - we're clearly battered with injuries, we should have money to cover that problem as we go for European qualification, and we seem perfectly find with sitting on our hands and not having a first team striker fit for a key cup game and winnable league games.

The point is we're not unlike Newcastle and similar clubs towards the top without a sugar daddy in that we all end up having to sell and like Newcastle we re-invest in the squad. We have done that everytime we've sold someone, with the exception of Arteta.

 

[Kiwi]

In regards to how the ********s have done

Andy Carroll £35,000,000 sold for 20million pound loss
Jordan Henderson £16,000,000 overpaid
Charlie Adam Blackpool £7,500,000 sold for 2.5million pound loss
Stewart Downing £20,000,000 sold for 14million pound loss
Joe Allen 15million.
Aspas and Alberto arguably havent delivered along with Borini
Successes are Sturridge Suarez Coutinho mignolet and fobbing off Torres for 50mil.

They've been hit and miss as anybody, spouting millions on crap but also getting in some good players.
We're in a solid financial position at the perfect position to push on with the returns from player sales and tv money and we really can't afford to spout money on crap. They need to be the "right" deals, hence Martinez doing it in summer where he can actually get the players he wants in.
At the end of the day Bobby's formed a pretty decent squad that has been utterly slammed by injuries, the worst we've ever had in a decade. A whole eleven players out or with suspect fitness for the derby. We've had the worst of luck with 3 players out with season ending injuries, and we've had our 3 main strikers at the club hit with injuries. We've cashed in well on Jelavic, getting 7.5million for a player who was badly gash for the last few seasons.
Younger players at the team have really developed, with Stones and Barkley showing us their potential, as well as a concerted youth programme that focuses on developing youth players through loaning them so that they get first team football. We are in a more than comfortable position with money to spend. Yes we got thumped in the derby and I can understand the knee jerk reaction from people but why splash out on wages on average players that won't improve us in the long term beyond providing extra squad depth that we will already have injury free. We can't afford to do a liverpool and screw up with a downing or a carroll, it'd put us back years. Therefore if Martinez can get his targets in January for a decent price then go for it but if not Risk > Reward

 

[Moomin]

I think you are trying too hard to make excuses for them. The payday loans are nothing new, and they are re-paid in full each year, even in years were a loss has been made, and player sales have had to be made in order to cover the loss.

There was no loss in the last year, we didn't have to sell players to cover a loss this summer, but we sold players anyway which means there should be money available. We have never needed to sell players to cover bridging loans in the past, so I don't see why we would now.

We are in the best financial shape we have been in years, the idea that we are now withholding millions of pounds worth of cash in order to prevent a small cash flow problem when the remainder of the biggest TV deal in history is coming our way in the summer doesn't sound very likely to me.

Maybe we are breaking the cycle of the bridging loan. Its basically a million quid of interest being pissed up a wall. Five years is five million quid, not to be sniffed at.

This biggest TV deal is just the same as the previous TV deals, it will end up the pockets of the players. We can look back at the previous record breaking TV deals, and you will see as night follows day, the wages jump up.

If we had vision, that extra TV money could fund the interest payments on a new stadium venture.

 

[Tubey]

In regards to how the ********s have done

Andy Carroll £35,000,000 sold for 20million pound loss
Jordan Henderson £16,000,000 overpaid
Charlie Adam Blackpool £7,500,000 sold for 2.5million pound loss
Stewart Downing £20,000,000 sold for 14million pound loss
Joe Allen 15million.
Aspas and Alberto arguably havent delivered along with Borini
Successes are Sturridge Suarez Coutinho mignolet and fobbing off Torres for 50mil.

They've been hit and miss as anybody, spouting millions on crap but also getting in some good players.
We're in a solid financial position at the perfect position to push on with the returns from player sales and tv money and we really can't afford to spout money on crap. They need to be the "right" deals, hence Martinez doing it in summer where he can actually get the players he wants in.
At the end of the day Bobby's formed a pretty decent squad that has been utterly slammed by injuries, the worst we've ever had in a decade. A whole eleven players out or with suspect fitness for the derby. We've had the worst of luck with 3 players out with season ending injuries, and we've had our 3 main strikers at the club hit with injuries. We've cashed in well on Jelavic, getting 7.5million for a player who was badly gash for the last few seasons.
Younger players at the team have really developed, with Stones and Barkley showing us their potential, as well as a concerted youth programme that focuses on developing youth players through loaning them so that they get first team football. We are in a more than comfortable position with money to spend. Yes we got thumped in the derby and I can understand the knee jerk reaction from people but why splash out on wages on average players that won't improve us in the long term beyond providing extra squad depth that we will already have injury free. We can't afford to do a liverpool and screw up with a downing or a carroll, it'd put us back years. Therefore if Martinez can get his targets in January for a decent price then go for it but if not Risk > Reward

We're talking about January transfers, not in general. We all know they're usually crap, that's the point. I'm saying that there's no proof whatsoever than January automatically means inflated prices and can be used as a legitimate excuse for the board failing to reinvest transfer fees back into the squad when we actually need it.

 

[Brennan]

In regards to how the ********s have done

Andy Carroll £35,000,000 sold for 20million pound loss
Jordan Henderson £16,000,000 overpaid
Charlie Adam Blackpool £7,500,000 sold for 2.5million pound loss
Stewart Downing £20,000,000 sold for 14million pound loss
Joe Allen 15million.
Aspas and Alberto arguably havent delivered along with Borini
Successes are Sturridge Suarez Coutinho mignolet and fobbing off Torres for 50mil.

They've been hit and miss as anybody, spouting millions on crap but also getting in some good players.
We're in a solid financial position at the perfect position to push on with the returns from player sales and tv money and we really can't afford to spout money on crap. They need to be the "right" deals, hence Martinez doing it in summer where he can actually get the players he wants in.
At the end of the day Bobby's formed a pretty decent squad that has been utterly slammed by injuries, the worst we've ever had in a decade. A whole eleven players out or with suspect fitness for the derby. We've had the worst of luck with 3 players out with season ending injuries, and we've had our 3 main strikers at the club hit with injuries. We've cashed in well on Jelavic, getting 7.5million for a player who was badly gash for the last few seasons.
Younger players at the team have really developed, with Stones and Barkley showing us their potential, as well as a concerted youth programme that focuses on developing youth players through loaning them so that they get first team football. We are in a more than comfortable position with money to spend. Yes we got thumped in the derby and I can understand the knee jerk reaction from people but why splash out on wages on average players that won't improve us in the long term beyond providing extra squad depth that we will already have injury free. We can't afford to do a liverpool and screw up with a downing or a carroll, it'd put us back years. Therefore if Martinez can get his targets in January for a decent price then go for it but if not Risk > Reward

Is there any researched evidence that players bought in the Summer end up being better value per pound than those bought in January ?

 

[Brennan]

There was that one January signing we made that was pretty decent:

 

[Steve Wigan]

For what, a nominal fee and a loan!? That's hardly backing a manager in a transfer window - that's what you'd expect a League 1 club to do in a transfer window.

And I'm clearly talking in addition to those - McGeady is a winger, Traore is injured and a loan. We have a dire need for a fit striker and a spark of creativity in the centre of midfield to take the weight off Barkley.

If Liverpool, with all their financial might, can negotiate such deals in January, surely a club that is not expected to splash the cash can shrewdly negotiate this month too?

Traore is about ten days from fitness. If we waited till he was fit the window would be closed.Why spend serious money on players who will be out of the picture when our injuries clear up...which will be pretty soon, apart from Gibson and Kone . Coleman, Distin,Lukaku, Deloufeu, Barkley, should all be back soon. Add McGeady and Traore and maybe one more tomorrow and we have a very strong squad. Would anyone spend their money on a house now, knowing a better one would be available in the summer? Of course not, you' rent a house until the summer. Get it ?

 

[Tubey]

There was that one January signing we made that was pretty decent:

Exactly - as I said earlier there are plenty of examples of players generally out of favour who have been well scouted and brought in for a range of fees that are in no way inflated.

 

[The Esk]

We've made £30m more this season from the new TV deal, why would all that be offered as collateral ?

Because it is not possible to offer part of your guaranteed (ie broadcast revenue) as collateral whilst freeing up another part for extra expenditure/investment. No bank would allow such an arrangement.

 

[Moomin]

When was Saurez bought??

 

[Minimeister]

Some of the stuff popping up on me facebook timeline. Anthony Gardner bought for 1 million from Spurs on the eve of deadline day. Walter Smith told he'll have no money to spend because of the overdraft....

Fast forward a few years and people are moaning after we've bought in a 15 million striker on loan and a winger who's last transfer was for 18 million. How time's change.

 

[Tubey]

When was Saurez bought??

January. I just don't like typing his name.