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I still believe in Marco Silva

Everton 1-3 Man City. They came, they saw, they conquered. Dressed like a flamboyance* of Tequila Sunrises, they scored three goals and bagged three points.

Another defeat, that three in a row, right?

Well, yes. 

But “It’s another defeat” is such reductionist phrase. “It’s another defeat” removes all context, strips off layer after layer after layer of positive to get to the bad news.  I’m not having it. We watch every second of Everton in forensic detail. We don’t reduce games to W L D. We don’t turn our love for this club into a binary code. 

I’m interested in the positives, in the fact that Ederson was tested, that we created chances, that 3-1 flattered Man City.  There were parts of the match that I even enjoyed, especially a rampaging furious Seamus Coleman – a symbolic totem in games like this – whose entire transfer fee would barely cover a few days of de Bruyne’s wages.

“It’s another defeat” has a partner in crime,  and misery loves company after all. “You’re accepting mediocrity” is often belched out too at times like these.  Everton haven’t won anything in a quarter of a century, we all fully accept mediocrity. I don’t want it. Just like I don’t want lots of horrible things in my life. For sufferance is the badge of all our tribe. 

The panic stricken tweets about relegation are fun too… It’s not going to happen. We are far, far, too boring to do anything as exciting as get relegated. 

I wanted us to win, but to expect us to win against Man City is madness. And it’s equally insane to use this match to further the case for getting rid of Marco Silva. Have we forgotten about the end of last season entirely? How many games are we in to the season? How many changes in personnel were there this summer? How depleted is our midfield? No Gbamin, no Andre Gomes… And we still did well! 

Watch Ben Johnson run in the 1988 Olympic 100 meters final. Eyes red raw and bulging. Ready to burst with speed. He broke the world record that day. But his veins were coursing with steroids.

City are doped up like Ben Johnson, but with money. The best players money can buy. The best manager money can buy.  

Just another defeat?

[*A flamboyance seemed like the best collective noun for this City team, but there are lots of options…]

  1. Hull’s win record for that season was 23.6%, so they improved by some margin after he took the job in January. I don’t have the statistics, but his record
    at Watford was quite healthy, apparently, until Everton tapped him up. Watford claim that this was the factor in their dip in form and they were compensated
    financially as a result.
    His record at Everton is nowhere near what we hoped for, but I still maintain that he came here with a good record in management.

    Getting clubs relegated is not a good record no matter what way you spin it

  2. Hull won 9 games in 2016/17. He was there from mid January and they won 6 of them after he took the job. I don’t have any numbers for Watford.

    He lost 14 games in total when managing Olympiacos to the Greek league championship and Sporting to 3rd in the Portugal league – 7 each.

    Greek league ? come on, he is in the real world now and waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of his depth

  3. He won 8 games at both Hull and Watford, that’s it, hardly a good record in management, or rather not one that should impress a side who wants to achieve anything.
    Watford sacked him because he was terrible, that had nothing to do with our interest, he is terrible now, someone tapping him up perhaps? Doubt it

    Hull won 9 games in 2016/17. He was there from mid January and they won 6 of them after he took the job. I don’t have any numbers for Watford.

    He lost 14 games in total when managing Olympiacos to the Greek league championship and Sporting to 3rd in the Portugal league – 7 each.

  4. Hull’s win record for that season was 23.6%, so they improved by some margin after he took the job in January. I don’t have the statistics, but his record
    at Watford was quite healthy, apparently, until Everton tapped him up. Watford claim that this was the factor in their dip in form and they were compensated
    financially as a result.
    His record at Everton is nowhere near what we hoped for, but I still maintain that he came here with a good record in management.

    He won 8 games at both Hull and Watford, that’s it, hardly a good record in management, or rather not one that should impress a side who wants to achieve anything.
    Watford sacked him because he was terrible, that had nothing to do with our interest, he is terrible now, someone tapping him up perhaps? Doubt it

  5. Reading Telegraph articles from the last few weeks.

    September 20th – Marco Silva says everyone at the club is giving 100%, he talked about the problem last season being unable to react to going behind in games ‘bad moments’ as though this is something we overcame.

    September 23rd – Silva questions the desire and hunger of the team the players were accused of hiding on the pitch a lack of character on the pitch. Same problems as last season stark contrast to his comments days before about 100% application.

    October 3rd – Silva says there’s been many recent positives, once again he says the players need to show more desire to win games.

    October 5th – Marco says he has full support from Marcel. He says the players are quality but this isn’t showing as they signed late in the transfer window after his excuse he says “it’s not about finding excuses” he reiterated the players need to work harder learning from mistakes. In the same article he says the players are quality and working hard, “we will see a different level”.

    Silva questions the players desire over and over again yet still explains they are working hard? Sounds to me like a group of players that he simply can’t motivate. How long should these re occurring problems continue? Crucial day today

  6. With the players we have available we are under-performing – I don’t think it can go on forever. Something will change, either form will pick up (I hope) or Silva will be sacked. I am starting to lose confidence in Silva but then I’m a fickle Evertonian who thinks it’s about time we had a good season.
  7. Hahaha.

    2 banks of 4, defensive block.

    No, Burnley do not suit Everton.

    Im not saying we wont win, but these are not a side you want to face when your struggling for creativity.

    They come out and have a bit of a go against all but the elite.

    We’ll catch these on the counter attack.

    0-2 Everton.

  8. His win record at Hull was 36.4%, and 30.8% at Watford.

    Hull’s win record for that season was 23.6%, so they improved by some margin after he took the job in January. I don’t have the statistics, but his record
    at Watford was quite healthy, apparently, until Everton tapped him up. Watford claim that this was the factor in their dip in form and they were compensated
    financially as a result.
    His record at Everton is nowhere near what we hoped for, but I still maintain that he came here with a good record in management.

  9. All successful managers were unproven at one point, but what I’m saying is that Arteta has had the very best mentor and he can apply
    what he’s learnt at Everton, or wherever he goes. We could go for the Pulis, Pardew, Bruce, etc type, but why would you?

    You should give your hands a slap for even typing them type of managers and Everton.

  10. In my opinion as soon as someone belittles Silvas management career they automatically lose the discussion.

    Talk about rewriting history, fans at all his previous clubs really liked him (aside from after we approached Watford).

    Top manager.

    He needs to start acting like one then Zat instead of the tactically inept and uninspiring manager we have now. Also, just because he was ‘liked’ by fans of his previous clubs doesn’t make him a top manager.

  11. In my opinion as soon as someone belittles Silvas management career they automatically lose the discussion.

    Talk about rewriting history, fans at all his previous clubs really liked him (aside from after we approached Watford).

    Top manager.

    By saying he is a Top manager you automatically lose the argument because he obviously is not of he wouldn’t be here.

  12. But apparently koeman was in a relegation battle after he got 7 points from 7 games (while playing 4 of the top 6). Why is this suddenly different other than silva has arguably got better players and had easier fixtures.

    If you didn’t think we was in deep turkey after Southampton smashed in 4 against us then I don’t know what to say. I genuinely feared relegation after that match and I’ve never thought it was possible with this club until then.
    I believe Silva has a chance at turning it around where Koeman didn’t but it’s a risky move to be taking cause if he loses today it might be another relegation fight.

  13. In my opinion as soon as someone belittles Silvas management career they automatically lose the discussion.

    Talk about rewriting history, fans at all his previous clubs really liked him (aside from after we approached Watford).

    Top manager.

  14. But apparently koeman was in a relegation battle after he got 7 points from 7 games (while playing 4 of the top 6). Why is this suddenly different other than silva has arguably got better players and had easier fixtures.

    I think Silva showed more in his first season than Koeman did. I know Koeman finished higher but he basically relied on Lukaku and Barkley. Silva’s shown he can turn it around but it has to be a lot sooner than February this season.

    I’m not saying Silva’s good or anything but I just can’t be arsed with us sacking a manager halfway through a season again unless it’s getting dire.

  15. He won the cup and finished third with Sporting Lisbon, won the league with Olympiacos and had good spells with Hull and Watford.

    I’d like to see how he goes when all his signings are fit, but if he does go maybe Arteta could be the man. He must have learned a lot in his time with Guadiola.
    He may not want to leave City yet, but if he does who else is around that you could have a lot of faith in.

    His win record at Hull was 36.4%, and 30.8% at Watford.

  16. Unless it looks like he’s dragging us towards a relegation battle we may as well give him the rest of the season to see if we progress. If we haven’t then is the time to sack him.

    But apparently koeman was in a relegation battle after he got 7 points from 7 games (while playing 4 of the top 6). Why is this suddenly different other than silva has arguably got better players and had easier fixtures.

  17. He lost 50% of his games at hull and they got relegated, he lost 50% of his games at Watford and they were on a slippery slope till he got sacked.

    The thrust of my argument is not so much Silva’s management record, which I think is very good statistically, but on the subject of who Everton could
    choose to replace him.

  18. He won the cup and finished third with Sporting Lisbon, won the league with Olympiacos and had good spells with Hull and Watford.

    I’d like to see how he goes when all his signings are fit, but if he does go maybe Arteta could be the man. He must have learned a lot in his time with Guadiola.
    He may not want to leave City yet, but if he does who else is around that you could have a lot of faith in.

    He lost 50% of his games at hull and they got relegated, he lost 50% of his games at Watford and they were on a slippery slope till he got sacked.

  19. What is this most important quality that is being overlooked?

    Not to buy poor players. He made a very big call on Richarlison when others raised their eyebrows.

    We could go along the Man Utd knee jerk route where they sack a manager every season and spend millions on players without regularly securing Champions League.

  20. The common denominator analyst is a bit simplistic for me as you need to look at the circumstances. For example with Hull, he took over a poor Hull side locked into a relegation battle. With Watford, Everton tried to poach him and according to numerous sources Watford headed on a downward trajectory as a result. Everton’s run of form is a reflection of the club itself over the past four years. Sacking a manager will not end the problems of the past for years – it will just perpetuate them.

    Marco Silva’s has the most important quality, which you knee jerkers, have overlooked to lead us to out of this mess.

    What is this most important quality that is being overlooked?

  21. What’s the common denominator in Hull, Watford and Everton’s run of bad form?

    We all didn’t have the same players.

    The common denominator analyst is a bit simplistic for me as you need to look at the circumstances. For example with Hull, he took over a poor Hull side locked into a relegation battle. With Watford, Everton tried to poach him and according to numerous sources Watford headed on a downward trajectory as a result. Everton’s run of form is a reflection of the club itself over the past four years. Sacking a manager will not end the problems of the past for years – it will just perpetuate them.

    Marco Silva’s has the most important quality, which you knee jerkers, have overlooked to lead us to out of this mess.

  22. Agree with the first bit but not arteta you can’t gamble on someone un proven

    All successful managers were unproven at one point, but what I’m saying is that Arteta has had the very best mentor and he can apply
    what he’s learnt at Everton, or wherever he goes. We could go for the Pulis, Pardew, Bruce, etc type, but why would you?

  23. He won the cup and finished third with Sporting Lisbon, won the league with Olympiacos and had good spells with Hull and Watford.

    I’d like to see how he goes when all his signings are fit, but if he does go maybe Arteta could be the man. He must have learned a lot in his time with Guadiola.
    He may not want to leave City yet, but if he does who else is around that you could have a lot of faith in.

    Agree with the first bit but not arteta you can’t gamble on someone un proven

  24. He won the cup and finished third with Sporting Lisbon, won the league with Olympiacos and had good spells with Hull and Watford.

    I’d like to see how he goes when all his signings are fit, but if he does go maybe Arteta could be the man. He must have learned a lot in his time with Guadiola.
    He may not want to leave City yet, but if he does who else is around that you could have a lot of faith in.

  25. In December we’ve got Leicester away, Liverpool at Analfield, Chelsea at Home United Away Arsenal at home, Playing like we are now we’ll lose all of them quite easily.
    So he really needs to start kicking this team into gear before it gets scary.

    Those are the kind of matches we quite often play reasonably or even very well in, even when we don’t win.

  26. I’ve lost all faith in him sadly. Not for sacking managers at the first signs of trouble, but just don’t think he’s the right man to take us forward. Expected us to be building on last seasons progress (towards the end) and not to start from scratch again. 11 points dropped from fixtures against Palace, Villa, Bournemouth and Sheffield Utd just isn’t acceptable.
  27. Despite the recovery at the end of last season (Fulham apart !!) , he has massively underachieved.
    Despite the new investment (yes , we missed a few targets as well) , he has had more support than any other coach around him in the table.
    We have had the easiest start to a season that I can remember , and he has wasted that also.
    He has also brought through none of the younger players either , unless someone can correct me.
    Where is the upside in all this ?. If we are building for the future , then where are the foundations ?
    Youth set up seems fine , investment seems fine, plans for the future re stadium etc ., seem fine. Coaching seems to be the failing !!

    I agree on the part he hasn’t brought none of the younger problems. I hope he does bring them on. However, the real question is whether Everton fans will cut him slack while playing them.

    Good question about the foundation. I don’t think Silva is happy with the spine of his team but that’s why it’s important to allow him time to reverse poor signings under Koeman. Only then we can go forward.

  28. Despite the recovery at the end of last season (Fulham apart !!) , he has massively underachieved.
    Despite the new investment (yes , we missed a few targets as well) , he has had more support than any other coach around him in the table.
    We have had the easiest start to a season that I can remember , and he has wasted that also.
    He has also brought through none of the younger players either , unless someone can correct me.
    Where is the upside in all this ?. If we are building for the future , then where are the foundations ?
    Youth set up seems fine , investment seems fine, plans for the future re stadium etc ., seem fine. Coaching seems to be the failing !!
  29. I disagree. Everton is very much in a team building phase and a leader would look at the travel of direction where the club is heading rather than looking at short term results. What we seeing here is a bunch of knee jerkers overreacting and not having any holistic thinking..

    It’s not short term results, though, is it? There were justifiable concerns about him last season and he also went on disastrous runs of form at both Hull and Watford.

    He’s a very, very bad manager and it is showing.

  30. Unless it looks like he’s dragging us towards a relegation battle we may as well give him the rest of the season to see if we progress. If we haven’t then is the time to sack him.
  31. I disagree. Everton is very much in a team building phase and a leader would look at the travel of direction where the club is heading rather than looking at short term results. What we seeing here is a bunch of knee jerkers overreacting and not having any holistic thinking..

    lol lol lol lol lol

    You nearly had me for a moment there Marco lad!

  32. Not really. Only a fool would still back a manager with Silva’s record.

    I disagree. Everton is very much in a team building phase and a leader would look at the travel of direction where the club is heading rather than looking at short term results. What we seeing here is a bunch of knee jerkers overreacting and not having any holistic thinking..

  33. What is there to believe in?
    Silva has shown nothing in his time in English football to suggest that he will be a success at Goodison and his managerial performances in Portugal and Greece represent flimsy evidence to invest belief in either.
    I would suggest that the reason that he got the job and remains in post is that ( for some reason ) Moshiri likes the image that he portrays and there are no other credible , realistic alternatives.
  34. How do you explain Leicester being much better than us having spent less then?

    The question is can they consistently maintain it season on season, be able to replace their top players, and still finish up there when having an off season. No doubt they’re having a good season so far, you could compare them to when we finished 4th and spent naff all. How did they fare the season after when they won the league and seasons since?
    Undoubtly there will be teams who may break into the top 6 or top 4, but I doubt that they’ll stay there consistenty season on season, unless they have the commercial backing akin to the Man City model.

  35. TBF it doesn’t matter who we get in, whether they’re the best thing since ‘BJ and Steak Day’ was invented, we just don’t have the commercial partners and cashflow to even challenge with the 6 clubs who have been at the top. Until we can get the right non-playing staff pulling off worldie sponsorship deals, we’re never going to get anywhere and will just be perenial water-waders. Those 6 clubs, even despite poor seasons they are still able to fork out huge sums of money for wages and transfer fees for the best players. We just can’t do that unfortunately.

    So sacking a manager every 18 months will do us no favours, we might as well see how the season pans out and hope we can at least turn it around and put silverware on the table. Here’s to hoping

    How do you explain Leicester being much better than us having spent less then?

  36. I’ve never been 100% convinced about Silva. Nothing he has done so far has meant I’m a 100% convinced he’s the manager for us. That feeling has been amplified with our start to the season.

    However, there’s a big difference between that and getting to the point where I want him sacked.

    Recently, as a club, we’ve lurched from one poor managerial decision to another. Whether that be sacking managers too early, appointing the wrong manager or just not having continuity in how the successive manager’s footballing philosophies line up.

    The club have invested in the Brands/Silva partnership. Whilst it’s not going well, I don’t think pushing the panic button and sacking the manager is the correct thing to do. Unless we are heading for a relegation scrap (which we aren’t) then sacking the manager probably doesn’t gain us much.

    Any new manager appointment shouldn’t be on a whim or done in the pressure situation of trying to fill the position mid-season. Let’s get to the end of the season and see how things stand. It’s very unlikely that any manager we want would consider moving from clubs mid-season. Also can anyone suggesting Mourinho have a word with themselves. Absolutely 0% chance he’d join Everton. In what world does Jose Mourinho view Everton as an attractive proposition? I’m all for ambition but anyone suggesting this as a feasible option looks like a complete barmpot

    Unless we are heading for a relegation scrap (which we aren’t)

    On current form we are very much heading into a relegation scrap. Up until Spurs in November and taking out the Man City game you probably couldn’t have hand picked a better set of fixtures. Wolves at home and catching them after a europa game was ideal.

    I am definitely not saying get rid of him, especially until we have someone else lined up but lets not kid ourselves and think we are too good to go down because carry on like this until Christmas and we could easily be in the relegation places……

  37. TBF it doesn’t matter who we get in, whether they’re the best thing since ‘BJ and Steak Day’ was invented, we just don’t have the commercial partners and cashflow to even challenge with the 6 clubs who have been at the top. Until we can get the right non-playing staff pulling off worldie sponsorship deals, we’re never going to get anywhere and will just be perenial water-waders. Those 6 clubs, even despite poor seasons they are still able to fork out huge sums of money for wages and transfer fees for the best players. We just can’t do that unfortunately.

    So sacking a manager every 18 months will do us no favours, we might as well see how the season pans out and hope we can at least turn it around and put silverware on the table. Here’s to hoping

  38. I’ve never been 100% convinced about Silva. Nothing he has done so far has meant I’m a 100% convinced he’s the manager for us. That feeling has been amplified with our start to the season.

    However, there’s a big difference between that and getting to the point where I want him sacked.

    Recently, as a club, we’ve lurched from one poor managerial decision to another. Whether that be sacking managers too early, appointing the wrong manager or just not having continuity in how the successive manager’s footballing philosophies line up.

    The club have invested in the Brands/Silva partnership. Whilst it’s not going well, I don’t think pushing the panic button and sacking the manager is the correct thing to do. Unless we are heading for a relegation scrap (which we aren’t) then sacking the manager probably doesn’t gain us much.

    Any new manager appointment shouldn’t be on a whim or done in the pressure situation of trying to fill the position mid-season. Let’s get to the end of the season and see how things stand. It’s very unlikely that any manager we want would consider moving from clubs mid-season. Also can anyone suggesting Mourinho have a word with themselves. Absolutely 0% chance he’d join Everton. In what world does Jose Mourinho view Everton as an attractive proposition? I’m all for ambition but anyone suggesting this as a feasible option looks like a complete barmpot

    I agree with most of that apart from the last part of the last paragraph. If Everton want to be a big hitter and do have some money behind them then why not go for Mourinho or his caliber of coach?

    Other than that, I’m starting to waive in my support of Silva. He had a whole season last year which had enough ups to counter the downs for me. This season, he needs to buck his ideas up pretty sharpish otherwise my confidence in him will soon evaporate. And I suspect that is the case for a lot of fence sitters with regards to him.

    Having said all that, I do hope he will turn it around and sort out our performances and start winning again.

  39. He’s had 14 months to turn around a whole squad that’s basically been [Poor language removed] for 3 years and had given some of the worst performances I’ve ever seen. Plus he inherited a squad that by 1 of the players admission were scared of playing at home. Until the last 2 it had become fortress Goodison. 4 games ago we had the 2nd best defensive record of 2019. Also we won more away games last season than previous. Yet people say hes made no progress and want him gone after a dodgy spell.

    Not his first dodgy spell though is it B4zza? The last one went on for approximately 2 months.

    So it’s 2 steps forward since then and now another 6 back.

  40. I still believe for now. Last ten games of last season set the bar, and renewed faith, but this season needs to turn around. As per usual it’s results against lower teams that are causing us problems, so he really needs to come up for a solution to that. If he does then I believe he can get us back in to Europe. Barring catastrophe/a really poor season, he has until next summer, and possibly the one after for me.

    The last transfer window hasn’t helped his cause either tbh, but I don’t blame Brands for that. He is here to look after the long term running of the club, so we shouldn’t expect everything he does to have immediate returns. In the short term that may hinder Silva/the team, but it should stand us well in the seasons to come, and we have to take this in to account when judging our results/the season.

  41. He’s had 14 months to turn around a whole squad that’s basically been [Poor language removed] for 3 years and had given some of the worst performances I’ve ever seen. Plus he inherited a squad that by 1 of the players admission were scared of playing at home. Until the last 2 it had become fortress Goodison. 4 games ago we had the 2nd best defensive record of 2019. Also we won more away games last season than previous. Yet people say hes made no progress and want him gone after a dodgy spell.

    I would never wish to deter a new poster.
    However , I believe you to be Marco , or one of his nearest and dearest .

  42. I still think we’re fine. Few disappointing results but we dominate possession and have chances to score (despite no descent CF). We limit opposition opportunities but have been unlucky with individual errors and opposition’s only chances going in. Midfield a bit stale but we are missing what I imagine would have been our first centre mid pairing of gomes gbamin.

    That’s is utter nonsense.

  43. He’s had 14 months to turn around a whole squad that’s basically been [Poor language removed] for 3 years and had given some of the worst performances I’ve ever seen. Plus he inherited a squad that by 1 of the players admission were scared of playing at home. Until the last 2 it had become fortress Goodison. 4 games ago we had the 2nd best defensive record of 2019. Also we won more away games last season than previous. Yet people say hes made no progress and want him gone after a dodgy spell.

    Some of the worst performances I’ve seen have been under Silva.

  44. He’s had 14 months to turn around a whole squad that’s basically been [Poor language removed] for 3 years and had given some of the worst performances I’ve ever seen. Plus he inherited a squad that by 1 of the players admission were scared of playing at home. Until the last 2 it had become fortress Goodison. 4 games ago we had the 2nd best defensive record of 2019. Also we won more away games last season than previous. Yet people say hes made no progress and want him gone after a dodgy spell.

    If you’ve seen some of the worst Everton performances ever over the past 14 months you’re either very young or you haven’t been a fan for very long, bad yes, worst ever no.

  45. He’s had 14 months to turn around a whole squad that’s basically been [Poor language removed] for 3 years and had given some of the worst performances I’ve ever seen. Plus he inherited a squad that by 1 of the players admission were scared of playing at home. Until the last 2 it had become fortress Goodison. 4 games ago we had the 2nd best defensive record of 2019. Also we won more away games last season than previous. Yet people say hes made no progress and want him gone after a dodgy spell.

    We’re 15th.

  46. He’s had 14 months to turn around a whole squad that’s basically been [Poor language removed] for 3 years and had given some of the worst performances I’ve ever seen. Plus he inherited a squad that by 1 of the players admission were scared of playing at home. Until the last 2 it had become fortress Goodison. 4 games ago we had the 2nd best defensive record of 2019. Also we won more away games last season than previous. Yet people say hes made no progress and want him gone after a dodgy spell.
  47. In December we’ve got Leicester away, Liverpool at Analfield, Chelsea at Home United Away Arsenal at home, Playing like we are now we’ll lose all of them quite easily.
    So he really needs to start kicking this team into gear before it gets scary.
  48. I wonder what the terms of his contract are.. ie how much would it cost to dismiss him ?

    As he was out of work and the Everton job was probably much bigger than anything else he was offered there is a good chance that the cost of dismissing him would not be that onerous… for a change.

    It was a gamble to give him the job and sometimes it looked like a good decision but a lot of the time it has looked like not very good business… it looks that way at the moment.

    The problem for the manager is that with each passing month the amount of leeway for poor results and poor performances diminishes.
    Last season we went through a horrendous set of results before and after Christmas until the very decent recovery later in the season but now twelve months later I am not a repetition of last years results will not be enough. Twelve months ago he was still settling into the club and he had a number of players he did not want were still around.

  49. Brands yes, but it’s difficult to see the progress he’s making (admittedly early) but it seems he doesn’t have that same level of flexibility that he did in his previous role. Silva encapsulates the ‘safe set of hands’ for me. Wouldn’t surprise me if he left us during the season if he then ended up at Newcastle or which ever 3 teams are in the bottom come Jan.

    I think it’s up to clubs to manage expectations. One of the worst things this club did was mention Martinez’s ‘I’ll get you in the CL’ comment – it set such ridiculously high expectations that as a fan base we’ve never got away from.

    Errr, I think it was Moshiri who said from the start he was a ‘gamble’ and its a fair assessment of what Silva is.
    In more ways than one.
    In the middle of a match when things aren’t working out, this is a manger who repeatedly abandons everything he is apparently working on
    and throws on every attacking player at his disposal. Ie, he abandons his own system, his own beliefs.
    I can remember all the talk about ‘transition’ in the first season, he just needs time, we just need patience.
    The signs were there after 6 matches into his tenure (@BlueToff ) There’s no longer any doubts.

    I hope to see Silva go at the end of the season (not before) and hope he goes onto to be successful elsewhere. He’s a good man.
    But he’s not what Everton need.
    This isn’t the ‘ridiculously high expectations’ of a fan.
    It should always be about getting back to winning trophies, getting in the top 4 and the unfinished business of playing in Europe.
    I’d go as far to say that anyone who doesn’t think that isn’t truly a Blue.
    And as for a ‘safe set of hands’, and I take it you mean avoiding relegation, well we got in BFS for that.

    It was probably right to gamble on Silva.
    Its now time for the search to continue.

  50. My thoughts precisely. It’s frustrating that he hasn’t put it all together yet. Performances against Villa, Bournemouth and Sheffield United unacceptable, but I’m still a fan.

    I look forward to various posters calling me a fool or an idiot.

    I agree with a lot been said He has to turn this ridiculous record around of winning or drawing games from losing positions and we’ve got to be harder to beat away. I know we were beat against Sheff Utd but our home form has been pretty good in his time here.

  51. Brands yes, but it’s difficult to see the progress he’s making (admittedly early) but it seems he doesn’t have that same level of flexibility that he did in his previous role. Silva encapsulates the ‘safe set of hands’ for me. Wouldn’t surprise me if he left us during the season if he then ended up at Newcastle or which ever 3 teams are in the bottom come Jan.

    I think it’s up to clubs to manage expectations. One of the worst things this club did was mention Martinez’s ‘I’ll get you in the CL’ comment – it set such ridiculously high expectations that as a fan base we’ve never got away from.

    Thought they saw Silva as being more ‘young and up and coming’, which is why they went through all that with Watford to get him.

    But you’re right, if he doesn’t turn it around again, Newcastle is probably about what he can expect if he stays in England.

  52. Wasn’t that supposed to be what Silva is for us though? Or rather, Brands?

    The trouble is that as far as managers are concerned, supporters are no longer patient enough to see it through.

    Brands yes, but it’s difficult to see the progress he’s making (admittedly early) but it seems he doesn’t have that same level of flexibility that he did in his previous role. Silva encapsulates the ‘safe set of hands’ for me. Wouldn’t surprise me if he left us during the season if he then ended up at Newcastle or which ever 3 teams are in the bottom come Jan.

    I think it’s up to clubs to manage expectations. One of the worst things this club did was mention Martinez’s ‘I’ll get you in the CL’ comment – it set such ridiculously high expectations that as a fan base we’ve never got away from.

  53. Silva is symptomatic of the issues we have as a club, but with English football as a whole in all honesty.

    Because the money has become so important, there is so little room for creativity from a manager – boards want to see managers come in who can ‘Do a Job’ hence how Moyes, Allardyce, Pardew, Bruce have floated around the Prem for years. The last coach to be pushed up into a position from within a club was Darren Moore, who got the heave-ho fairly quickly.

    Even here when there was chat about Arteta, people are so unsure of ‘new’ managers and want marquee managers. You look at the paths that German managers take and they are totally different to the ones coaching in the Prem take.

    If Silva does go I’d rather we took the path less travelled and actually started to look towards building a new look Everton, actually start developing a style of play that defines us as a club, with a squad of ‘Everton’ players rather than some miasma of different styles. Clear everything out (all the way down to youth coaching) and start again. Build the new legacy.

    Wasn’t that supposed to be what Silva is for us though? Or rather, Brands?

    The trouble is that as far as managers are concerned, supporters are no longer patient enough to see it through.

  54. He was left a bit short in the Summer in all honesty. Putting 100% faith in a 19 year old from Italy to bring in the goals and not replacing Zouma – who was easily our strongest defender. Add the loss of Gueye who has consistently been one of our better players to be replaced by a lad who had an underwhelming start albeit injured after two games.

    Can’t help but feel that the blame for this poor start is in equal measure Silva, Brands and the players themselves.

  55. Silva is symptomatic of the issues we have as a club, but with English football as a whole in all honesty.

    Because the money has become so important, there is so little room for creativity from a manager – boards want to see managers come in who can ‘Do a Job’ hence how Moyes, Allardyce, Pardew, Bruce have floated around the Prem for years. The last coach to be pushed up into a position from within a club was Darren Moore, who got the heave-ho fairly quickly.

    Even here when there was chat about Arteta, people are so unsure of ‘new’ managers and want marquee managers. You look at the paths that German managers take and they are totally different to the ones coaching in the Prem take.

    If Silva does go I’d rather we took the path less travelled and actually started to look towards building a new look Everton, actually start developing a style of play that defines us as a club, with a squad of ‘Everton’ players rather than some miasma of different styles. Clear everything out (all the way down to youth coaching) and start again. Build the new legacy.

  56. Quite simple really ,they don’t want constructive opinions ,much rather have their heads spinning with plots and downfalls .

    Personally, I think it’s more the benefit of hindsight, knowing how it turned out in the 3rd season. Obviously, I wasn’t around but I can’t imagine it was all rosy with the fans at the same moment in Kendall’s tenure.

    See also: "Three years and its still crap: Ta ra Fergie"

  57. You’ll have to help me out. As a mere whippersnapper of 37, I don’t remember much of the 80s.

    How was having the same record then seen as better than now? What is the difference? No snark, just a genuine question.

    Quite simple really ,they don’t want constructive opinions ,much rather have their heads spinning with plots and downfalls .

  58. Im no good answering that as you’re older than me mate!i just think football has changed and become much more tactical than what it was in decades gone by.

    I think at present the top teams need not just top players but also a quality style/system to succeed more so than ever before.
    I also believe modern day players are primadonna’s and need alot more effective man management than players of past era’s.

    You have to have charisma to be able to constantly motivate multi millionaire players week in week out imo. I have to agree with you regarding the players. You look at city and they back quality with the workload every week.

  59. You’ll have to help me out. As a mere whippersnapper of 37, I don’t remember much of the 80s.

    How was having the same record then seen as better than now? What is the difference? No snark, just a genuine question.

    Im no good answering that as you’re older than me mate!i just think football has changed and become much more tactical than what it was in decades gone by.

    I think at present the top teams need not just top players but also a quality style/system to succeed more so than ever before.

    I also believe modern day players are primadonna’s and need alot more effective man management than players of past era’s.

    You have to have charisma to be able to constantly motivate multi millionaire players week in week out imo.

  60. Football was different back then mate.

    Like comparing Dixe Dean to current centre forwards.

    You’ll have to help me out. As a mere whippersnapper of 37, I don’t remember much of the 80s.

    How was having the same record then seen as better than now? What is the difference? No snark, just a genuine question.

  61. I still think we’re fine. Few disappointing results but we dominate possession and have chances to score (despite no descent CF). We limit opposition opportunities but have been unlucky with individual errors and opposition’s only chances going in. Midfield a bit stale but we are missing what I imagine would have been our first centre mid pairing of gomes gbamin.

    Don’t worry too much about who is missing, but concern yourself with the centre back pairing, there are plenty of future goals going through that gap, Silva doesn’t trust Holgate so it will be January before the gap is repaired.

  62. I would add, ironically, Kendall’s first season had us in 8th winning 40% of our games and his second season started with two wins, four losses and a draw.

    The massive fraud.

  63. I still think he has talent. Everton could well yet kill his career off but if he can ride out this storm I think the talent is undoubtedly there. We went to Anfield and put in the best performance of any side last season. Even City pretty much set up to contain there and only had the penalty chance. We went there and genuinely went toe to toe with them and could have been 2 up. The result against City didn’t go our way but again we played football against probably the best team in Europe and caused issues for them. It wasn’t just smash and grab, it was an Everton team without its full strength causing problems through how it was playing.

    He’s shown he can play v top teams, he’s shown he can solve problems, he’s shown he can inspire defensive solidity and attacking prowess. He has to put it all together now consistently but in my view the raw materials are there. My view has always been that the assessment point will be at the end of the season unless relegation looks likely.

    My thoughts precisely. It’s frustrating that he hasn’t put it all together yet. Performances against Villa, Bournemouth and Sheffield United unacceptable, but I’m still a fan.

    I look forward to various posters calling me a fool or an idiot.

  64. I still think he has talent. Everton could well yet kill his career off but if he can ride out this storm I think the talent is undoubtedly there. We went to Anfield and put in the best performance of any side last season. Even City pretty much set up to contain there and only had the penalty chance. We went there and genuinely went toe to toe with them and could have been 2 up. The result against City didn’t go our way but again we played football against probably the best team in Europe and caused issues for them. It wasn’t just smash and grab, it was an Everton team without its full strength causing problems through how it was playing.

    He’s shown he can play v top teams, he’s shown he can solve problems, he’s shown he can inspire defensive solidity and attacking prowess. He has to put it all together now consistently but in my view the raw materials are there. My view has always been that the assessment point will be at the end of the season unless relegation looks likely.

  65. Anyone still backing Silva is a fool.

    Yep – everyone is entitled to an opinion but when you look at all of the damning statistics, our performances last season and this one and his in game management its completely idiotic to suggest you have faith that this fella can suddenly turn us into a top 7 side.

    Its the equivalent of trying to argue blue in the face that Pep is a poor manager despite all the statistics suggesting otherwise.

  66. Cant believe when I put the tooth that fell out last week under my pillow, I didnt wake up the next day and find 10p, WTF is going on

    The tooth fairy repeatedly sends out who he considers his main tooth man in DCL but he misses most of the houses. Try leaving the gate and door wide open and neon light decked around the house. He may have a half a chance getting you.

  67. I haven’t forgotten the end of last season, unfortunately I haven’t forgot mid season either, so looking at it as a whole it not good enough, 4 defeats already, sorry but he has to be on the edge, we have been awful at times.
  68. It’s undeniable that he does some things well. The weaknesses are starting to catch up. He starts to get those figured out and we might get somewhere. It’s just been awhile now and he has made little progress.
  69. I still think we’re fine. Few disappointing results but we dominate possession and have chances to score (despite no descent CF). We limit opposition opportunities but have been unlucky with individual errors and opposition’s only chances going in. Midfield a bit stale but we are missing what I imagine would have been our first centre mid pairing of gomes gbamin.

    Our shots on targets to the amount of possession we have in games is diabolical mate.

  70. I still think we’re fine. Few disappointing results but we dominate possession and have chances to score (despite no descent CF). We limit opposition opportunities but have been unlucky with individual errors and opposition’s only chances going in. Midfield a bit stale but we are missing what I imagine would have been our first centre mid pairing of gomes gbamin.
  71. We’ve seen that 17 game lull and it was sugarcoated by a few results that meant absolutely nothing. We have witnessed how bad it can get and the likelihood of it getting much better are very slim.

    Unless he goes on an outrageous run (and I mean OUTRAGEOUS) I can’t see him getting us anywhere. Do we take the initiative and sack him, or do we persist with mediocrity until his contract runs out? I can’t see him lasting personally

  72. I dont believe in him any more and i hope that Brands and co have a replacement lined up and pull the trigger as soon as possible. The start to this season has been unforgivable for a manager in his second season with 3 transfer windows behind him and even if he goes on a little decent run you can 100% guarantee there will be embarrassing runs again. It is who he is and it is not good enough for a club trying to get back to the upper echelons of the premier league.
  73. 3-1 did flatter City because it should have been about 6-1, I think the majority gave this game a free hit, This match is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things it’s the Villa the Sheff United the Bournemouth that people are fuming about.

    Have we forgotten about the end of last season entirely?

    No but have we forgotten the Christmas period last year where Milwall also knocked us out? I agree that some views are really over the top but that’s just what I expect with this fanbase these days.

  74. Not too worried with the defeat and performance versus City, however, Pickford’s attitude worries me. It’s the defeats at the hands of Sheffield Utd. Bournemouth and Villa that concern me and a manager who says he will not set up any differently for away games and home games. Do we really need two defensive central midfielders for home games against Watford or Sheffield Utd.?

    I don’t want Silva sacked unless we have already identified and agreed terms with his replacement, but, I sincerely hope that Brands is already working on a short list.

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