Would 1 League Cup make a difference?

...on your opinion of Moyes?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 49.2%
  • No

    Votes: 32 50.8%

  • Total voters
    63
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I think how you answer this depends how you see the game.

For me it will always be about winning trophies.

We'll never, ever win the league as long as the status quo is maintained, ergo we should be going all out to win cups and perform to the best of our ability in them. We've been knocked out by some atrocious teams and lost games we should have won in sickening ways.

That can't be argued with IMO.

I'd take no satisfaction whatsoever from finishing 2nd, 3rd or anywhere else, though I'd respect the achievement. I'd love to win a cup.

The only problem with that is that being in the financial position we're in, dropping from 6th to 10th because our focus is on the cup would mean a lot less money from tv deals. Meaning we'd be hampering our own growth inevitably.

I don't see SELL-TO-BUY as a necessarily bad way to operate, but it puts a lot of pressure on the manager/chairman to get the deals we need to go ahead. I think if you look at what Moyes started with in terms of squad he has done a great job in changing the way the team operates on the pitch, as well as heightened our standing in the league and he has built a good squad for whoever/whenever someone comes in to take up the torch.
 

People seem to think its a divine right that because we're Everton with a good past we should of won a trophy under moyes. That baffles me tbh... It would be an achievement to win a trophy in this modern era of money.

Over the years if we came accross utd, Liverpool, arsenal, Chelsea and now spurs and city....We should lose that game, just as when we come accross a Wigan, we should win.

The 09 cup run we knocked out very good teams on route to the final and finally got outdone by Chelsea...it was no shame, yet in many eyes it is used as a stick to beat moyes with.

We'v won games we should of lost and lost games we should of won. There's an element of luck in the cup and its not qiute all come together for us yet....
 
People seem to think its a divine right that because we're Everton with a good past we should of won a trophy under moyes. That baffles me tbh... It would be an achievement to win a trophy in this modern era of money.

Over the years if we came accross utd, Liverpool, arsenal, Chelsea and now spurs and city....We should lose that game, just as when we come accross a Wigan, we should win.

The 09 cup run we knocked out very good teams on route to the final and finally got outdone by Chelsea...it was no shame, yet in many eyes it is used as a stick to beat moyes with.

We'v won games we should of lost and lost games we should of won. There's an element of luck in the cup and its not qiute all come together for us yet....

09 wasn't Moyes fault.

11 and 12 are the ones I hold against him.
 
The only problem with that is that being in the financial position we're in, dropping from 6th to 10th because our focus is on the cup would mean a lot less money from tv deals. Meaning we'd be hampering our own growth inevitably.

I don't see SELL-TO-BUY as a necessarily bad way to operate, but it puts a lot of pressure on the manager/chairman to get the deals we need to go ahead. I think if you look at what Moyes started with in terms of squad he has done a great job in changing the way the team operates on the pitch, as well as heightened our standing in the league and he has built a good squad for whoever/whenever someone comes in to take up the torch.

So in 11 years time when we've gone 30-odd years without a trophy will you be quite happy knowing we've done OK in the league.

If we haven't won anything in the last 11 yrs with the club set up as it is what's gunna change?
 


... I mean aside from the fact that it hasn't worked for anyone what are the negatives?

It's worked for Lyon. They've made themselves a CL regular, and not just because they're in a poor league but actually getting out of the group stages quite often. If you do it as part of a specific plan rather than being forced into it because you're skint it works very well.
 
On a serious note, wouldn't winning the League Cup be good in the sense it would help us gain a winning mentality? People credit part of Chelsea's surge in the late 00's as being down to winning the League Cup and getting a thirst for silverware (I'm sure the money helped of course)
 
This is a long one but "thuck ma baws" raises an interesting question (unrelated to his generous lispy offer of testicular fellatio) so I wanted to look into it with an open mind:

It's worked for Lyon. They've made themselves a CL regular, and not just because they're in a poor league but actually getting out of the group stages quite often. If you do it as part of a specific plan rather than being forced into it because you're skint it works very well.
I'll be honest I don't follow other leagues that closely so I looked up some numbers. Before the specifics I would say that is an extremely dangerous specific plan -- even without a "specific plan" to buy low and sell high most teams are trying to buy cheap players who outperform their value. Most of them fail. Even his detractors agree this is Moyes' strength -- yet we've not improved ourselves from selling to buy. We are a better team now sure but relative to the rest of the league (which doesn't just stand still; they are improving as well) we're still just in the mix for Europa which is where we were 5 years ago.

"(Lyon's) club’s financial results for the 2011-12 year, released on Monday, revealed a net loss of €28m." Are you sure they weren't "forced into it because they're skint?" It certainly sounds like they spent too much on players three years ago and had to cut back drastically since then.

We are in the ballpark of a French CL team (not PSG obviously -- from this point on assume I aware of PSG and treating them as the outlier which they are) in terms of our combined netspend and wages. In fact we spend more than most of them. We are not close to the Prem CL teams.

Wages I found their wages for 2010 which worked out to around 40m pounds a year. We spent 63m pounds that same season. I believe (since the loss from 11/12 and some player sales) their wages might actually be lower now. Regardless we can't qualify for the CL spending less than 40m a year on players -- they can. It's not the same.

Transfers If Prem teams decided to stop buying players from Ligue 1 they'd have almost 100m pounds less last year. There is probably usually a net profit from Spain too. We don't have a bigger league to come inject 100m into our economy. They aren't just a selling team; it's a selling league.

If we sell a player for a huge fee it's most often to another Prem team. The money may be the same but there is a difference there -- you have improved your opponents for the CL. Lyon would most often be selling out of their own league -- so they get money while their opponents stay at the same level. We might get 30m for Fellaini for instance but it will probably mean Fellaini is improving the team currently fourth in the league. How are we going to improve our league standing by selling our best players to the teams 1-3 spots above us in the league?

http://blog.bimeanalytics.com/engli...ish-pl-summer-transfers-theyve-spent-how-much

Not convinced myself but if I'm missing something let me know.
 
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