Will we beat the ‘entertainers’

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I genuinely don't see how such a reasoned and decent poster can say something so unreasonable.

Our record signing was Lukaku with 28m who as you know we sold for 75m.

You're saying that with an open chequebook instead of a limited budget which needed spreading thinly, we not only wouldn't be where we are now, we'd be worse than Swansea / WBA etc over the course of 38 games.

This is just pure speculation. I can't say with any meaning that we would be 4th or 5th or 7th etc... but by the same token, you can't say we'd be 18th-20th. He has never had the money afforded to Allardyce in this window and Koeman throughout his stay.

I am thoroughly convinced we would have gone down mate

We were struggling in 14/15 until we got that big win over Newcastle. If we'd lost that then that season could have definately gone a different way

Martinez would have probably used the Lukaku money well to buy attacking players, but ultimately his lack of defensive nous and outright refusal to show some tactical flexibility would have sunk us. We would have got on a bad run and he wouldn't have been able to tighten us defensively to get out of it. He'd been sussed out

He would have probably focused on the cups and Europe to the detriment of our league form and would have bailed the second the season was over, just like he did at Wigan when he relegated them

His first season was great, but his second and third one's showed he had zero plan b, and that would have eventually killed us. I'm in no doubt of that

 

[Titus Bramble]

Wotsit teeth over the park is proving that it’s not the defenders you buy, it’s the system that you play. Even with the most expensive defender ever they still look shakey at the back.

Same a applies for Martinez. You can have the best individual players in the world, but if you’re not set up right you’ll still concede. The majority of his time here we were not set up right.

Those saying he was hamstrung with the money (or lack of) he had available are wide of the mark. He spent big sums while here to take us backwards from where he got us initially

 

[ilikecheese]

..looks like a good thread but I don’t really know what it’s about.

It's about trying to settle a 3 1/2 year old score on the internet. It's really quite funny.

 

[ClausThomsen]

here he basically had to throw the whole of his budget at one player in Lukaku (for a fee his successors are liberally throwing at utter mugs to bring in by the bucket load, btw)

That fee would not get a striker close to the proven PL calibre of Lukaku in the current market. The fact that Utd paid so much for Lukaku shows the inflation that has hit the market in the past two years.

I agree that Martinez had a footballing vision and there was, for some time, a very promising future for Everton but the sheer awfulness of his last few games means he had to go as he could no longer get a performance out of his players. The capability of his successors is neither here nor there - Martinez and Everton was no longer a fit.

The only way he could have stayed was for Moshiri to get completely behind him and fund a complete clear out, and replacement, of those players not on Martinez's side. None of us know how many that was and what further ructions that could cause with those left behind but it would surely have entailed a massive risk of financial ruin for both Moshiri and the club.

 

[mkrudden]

Wotsit teeth over the park is proving that it’s not the defenders you buy, it’s the system that you play. Even with the most expensive defender ever they still look shakey at the back.

Same a applies for Martinez. You can have the best individual players in the world, but if you’re not set up right you’ll still concede. The majority of his time here we were not set up right.

Those saying he was hamstrung with the money (or lack of) he had available are wide of the mark. He spent big sums while here to take us backwards from where he got us initially

To be fair mate, he's played about 2 games. He needs longer than that to aclimitise to a team who leave their CBs more exposed.

 

[ClausThomsen]

To be fair mate, he's played about 2 games. He needs longer than that to aclimitise to a team who leave their CBs more exposed.

Especially when they're protected by Can and Wijnaldum and his partner at CB, Matic, has a stinker.

 

[mkrudden]

It's about trying to settle a 3 1/2 year old score on the internet. It's really quite funny.

I shall defend our Bobby at all costs cheesy. You should, and i am sure do, know this by now.

 

[COYBL25]

We would have definitely gone down this season if Martinez was at the helm

Might still with Allardyce yet mind

You forgot about Koeman too ?

 

[Nymzee]

Who gives a crap

 

[Yarrgh]

Would be hilarious if a total as garbage as 47 got us 7th this season.

I think there is a far bigger issue however rather than just comparing two crap managers and that is for the best part of 5 years now we have, by and large, been utterly awful. Obviously Martinez's first season started off this period so that should be excluded as we were excellent. However for the next 4 years (up until now) apart from a spell between January-March in Koeman's only full season in charge we have been pish. We've gotten extremely used to losing games over the past 4 years and something needs to change.

Cull the squad at the end of the season, boot out Allardyce and start completely fresh.

Be more hilarious if it got us 6th!

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

You forgot about Koeman too ?

Well Koeman was doing so badly that he had to be sacked mid season, something we haven't done since the early 00's, so yeah, he could have also potentially taken us down as there seemed to be no way for him to reverse things

Make no mistake, I'm no Koeman apologist. I did my best to back him whilst he was here but I eventually soured on him along with everyone else

I find the whole Koeman Vs Martinez thing to be a false equivalency. They both failed. Martinez seemed the nicer guy. That's the only real distinction that mattered to me. Both managers at their best had us playing some good stuff (the 6-3 against Bournemouth was excellent from Koeman for instance). Both men at their worst had us playing some utter dirge

They're both gone, and I'm thrilled about that on both counts

I'll be equally thrilled when we turf Allardyce

 

[toffee-L]

I am thoroughly convinced we would have gone down mate

We were struggling in 14/15 until we got that big win over Newcastle. If we'd lost that then that season could have definately gone a different way

Martinez would have probably used the Lukaku money well to buy attacking players, but ultimately his lack of defensive nous and outright refusal to show some tactical flexibility would have sunk us. We would have got on a bad run and he wouldn't have been able to tighten us defensively to get out of it. He'd been sussed out

He would have probably focused on the cups and Europe to the detriment of our league form and would have bailed the second the season was over, just like he did at Wigan when he relegated them

His first season was great, but his second and third one's showed he had zero plan b, and that would have eventually killed us. I'm in no doubt of that

Completely agree, he'd have taken us down. In his third season the wheels well and truly fell off and we were extremely fortunate that we had enough points gathered before it happened. If that toxic run had started sooner there is no way he had the backbone or the nous to reverse it, we'd have nose dived straight into the championship.

 

[davek]

That fee would not get a striker close to the proven PL calibre of Lukaku in the current market. The fact that Utd paid so much for Lukaku shows the inflation that has hit the market in the past two years. I agree that Martinez had a footballing vision and there was, for some time, a very promising future for Everton but the sheer awfulness of his last few games means he had to go as he could no longer get a performance out of his players. The capability of his successors is neither here nor there - Martinez and Everton was no longer a fit. The only way he could have stayed was for Moshiri to get completely behind him and fund a complete clear out, and replacement, of those players not on Martinez's side. None of us know how many that was and what further ructions that could cause with those left behind but it would surely have entailed a massive risk of financial ruin for both Moshiri and the club.

As opposed to now when we've had two further FT managers who've flushed £300M down the toilet.

 

[mkrudden]

Who gives a crap

With respect, you like debating random player names with @Zatara and @bluestevon and the merits of signing.
And you shouldn't be ridiculed or criticised for that, good on you and GOT for having the platform.
Each to their own, eh?

 

[thebluenosebolt]

As opposed to now when we've had two further FT managers who've flushed £300M down the toilet.

But ..But you said Moshiri hasnt spent anything as were still a sell to buy club ??
Pretty sure El bob didnt manage to acrue £300M worth of talent to sell....my head hurts