Who let Everton/Koeman down?

[bring the ghost on]

A-- Took over Ajax and PSV when they were major favourites for titles and left both quickly when they soon tanked.

Tanked as in, winning the Eredivisie in 3 out of the 4 seasons he was manager in that league?

B-- Took over Valencia who were 3rd best in Spain and their form would have seen them relegated if he hadnt been sacked. Hated by fans and some top players filed lawsuits.

A poor stint for Koeman, at a club riddled with problems. He walked into a vipers nest and this was definitely a learning curve for him. It can happen to the best of them. Mourinho lost the dressing room at Chelsea, but he will no doubt go on to win more trophies.

Benfica and AZ he managed for less than 12 months in both instances, so I think they're not really examples to judge his whole career on.

E-- Brilliant for Feyenoord with NO MONEY l where he was forced to play young players who had fantastic pedigree..

F-- Took over from Poch and kept Saints where they were in the league (note ours and liverpools/chelseas nosedives) with Les Reed doing the player hiring with Koeman having some small role i guess (Reed also did the hiring under Poch as shown in a few articles).

Not sure why you're trying to credit other people for his good work - Poch / Reed. Koeman managed the S'ton side very well and they punched way above their weight. Feyenoord he also did a very good job at.

I'm not saying he's the best manager going, but he's won numerous trophies and has shown himself to be astute. He's had a few bad runs, but even at Valencia he won the Copa del ray and he's always fought back from his unsuccessful periods.

Let's give the guy a chance yeah? 7 points in 3 games isn't a bad start.

 

[gorgeousgeorgeEFC]

In what way was Koeman let down? He knew when he joined us that Moshiri wasn't particularly wealthy by Premier League standards. And is it really Moshiri's fault that a player (Moussa Sissoko) decided that joining Spurs was a more attractive proposition than joining EFC? Spurs are in the Champions League, they're situated in the capital and they will have a bigger, better stadium than Arsenal just two years from now.

 

[Zatara]

Tanked as in, winning the Eredivisie in 3 out of the 4 seasons he was manager in that league?



A poor stint for Koeman, at a club riddled with problems. He walked into a vipers nest and this was definitely a learning curve for him. It can happen to the best of them. Mourinho lost the dressing room at Chelsea, but he will no doubt go on to win more trophies.

Benfica and AZ he managed for less than 12 months in both instances, so I think they're not really examples to judge his whole career on.



Not sure why you're trying to credit other people for his good work - Poch / Reed. Koeman managed the S'ton side very well and they punched way above their weight. Feyenoord he also did a very good job at.

I'm not saying he's the best manager going, but he's won numerous trophies and has shown himself to be astute. He's had a few bad runs, but even at Valencia he won the Copa del ray and he's always fought back from his unsuccessful periods.

Let's give the guy a chance yeah? 7 points in 3 games isn't a bad start.

A-- i said left both quickly when they tanked. Imagine at Ajax he had Ibra and Drenthe on top form...

B-- Valencia had no problems finishing 3rd in the season before he joined. They won the copa del ray with players saying they were playing for themselves very different to the league style.

C-- Yes at Benfica and AZ he was there for less than 12months...AZ less than 6months as he was awful and got sacked....so yes he can be judged and was indeed judged and rightly got sacked.

Hopefully he does well for us...i cant see it.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Hopefully he does well for us...i cant see it.

Would top 6 be considered doing well? Because he's already done that with a weaker Southampton side.

 

[smileychap]

A-- i said left both quickly when they tanked. Imagine at Ajax he had Ibra and Drenthe on top form...

B-- Valencia had no problems finishing 3rd in the season before he joined. They won the copa del ray with players saying they were playing for themselves very different to the league style.

C-- Yes at Benfica and AZ he was there for less than 12months...AZ less than 6months as he was awful and got sacked....so yes he can be judged and was indeed judged and rightly got sacked.

Hopefully he does well for us...i cant see it.

I think he'll do OK for Everton and maintain that ' best of the rest ' position that's become the image of the club under Moyes.

I don't say that's or ultimate aim, a new stadium could see us regularly in the top 6, but Europa qualification and a cup run would be success. the only difference to Moyes being that Moyes achieved that with a financial footing of a bottom 8 club.

The 'advantage' Moyes had at that stage was reputation ( I.e. lack of ). We weren't sitting ducks for agents and we weren't in Europe. Moyes focused on players from the championship, Ireland and Scotland for whom Everton was a tangible step up. They grew with the club and they played their socks off for him.

Now we're ' monied ' (TV deal & Moshiri ), we're having to shelve out, but we're not in Europe, so what is the type of player we're attracting?

Personally I believe more in the potential of the players we have, that I dearly hope Koeman can rediscover. For the reasons above, the market is not the place Everton should look for answers.

A stadium plan, our youth and a coach that understands fitness, motivation and defence is the long term future. I think Koeman can do that, but if love an an Ex Evertonian to be developed for the role beyond Koeman: Stubbs, Ferguson, unsworth etc ( and really hope we're developing them in parallel ).

 

[Zatara]

Would top 6 be considered doing well? Because he's already done that with a weaker Southampton side.

So he improved from the previous manager by increasing position by 2 places. Therefore you would suggest he would be doing well if we finished 9th?

 

[Zatara]

I think he'll do OK for Everton and maintain that ' best of the rest ' position that's become the image of the club under Moyes.

I don't say that's or ultimate aim, a new stadium could see us regularly in the top 6, but Europa qualification and a cup run would be success. the only difference to Moyes being that Moyes achieved that with a financial footing of a bottom 8 club.

The 'advantage' Moyes had at that stage was reputation ( I.e. lack of ). We weren't sitting ducks for agents and we weren't in Europe. Moyes focused on players from the championship, Ireland and Scotland for whom Everton was a tangible step up. They grew with the club and they played their socks off for him.

Now we're ' monied ' (TV deal & Moshiri ), we're having to shelve out, but we're not in Europe, so what is the type of player we're attracting?

Personally I believe more in the potential of the players we have, that I dearly hope Koeman can rediscover. For the reasons above, the market is not the place Everton should look for answers.

A stadium plan, our youth and a coach that understands fitness, motivation and defence is the long term future. I think Koeman can do that, but if love an an Ex Evertonian to be developed for the role beyond Koeman: Stubbs, Ferguson, unsworth etc ( and really hope we're developing them in parallel ).

I hope Unsworth is being groomed for the manager position in 2 seasons time...at that point the young players could be ready to break into the side if theyre good enough.

 

[bring the ghost on]

So he improved from the previous manager by increasing position by 2 places. Therefore you would suggest he would be doing well if we finished 9th?

This is some seriously confused logic you're applying.

No, I would not consider finishing 9th to be a success. I did not refer to this bizarre rule of "increasing your league position by 2 places" as some sort of benchmark. My point is quite simple - he finished 6th with Southampton, he can easily achieve that with us.

I asked you whether you would consider 6th place a good finish?

 

[Dirty Dutch]

A-- i said left both quickly when they tanked. Imagine at Ajax he had Ibra and Drenthe on top form...

B-- Valencia had no problems finishing 3rd in the season before he joined. They won the copa del ray with players saying they were playing for themselves very different to the league style.

C-- Yes at Benfica and AZ he was there for less than 12months...AZ less than 6months as he was awful and got sacked....so yes he can be judged and was indeed judged and rightly got sacked.

Hopefully he does well for us...i cant see it.

Drenthe never played for ajax and koeman never managed him. His brother Erwin was manager of Feyenoord when he had Drenthe. Ibra wasnt in top form at ajax. There were many doubts about him and didnt score much.

 

[Zatara]

This is some seriously confused logic you're applying.

No, I would not consider finishing 9th to be a success. I did not refer to this bizarre rule of "increasing your league position by 2 places" as some sort of benchmark. My point is quite simple - he finished 6th with Southampton, he can easily achieve that with us.

I asked you whether you would consider 6th place a good finish?

Isnt it a fact that he improved Southamptons position by two places? Meanwhile Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton all nosedived?

So a similar barometer would be him taking us to 9th. Yet youre impressed with his work at southampton and yet would consider the same improvement with Everton as unacceptable.

What needs to be factored in is that its highly unlikely that Koeman will stay at the club for more than 3 seasons (i think two) based on his career. His mandate has to be to get top 6 with the money hes being paid so i would say 6th would be an acceptable position for koeman this season.

Any lower than 6th and i think hes failed especially as the youngest player hes signed for the first team is 27years old so theres linited continuity.

 

[Zatara]

Drenthe never played for ajax and koeman never managed him. His brother Erwin was manager of Feyenoord when he had Drenthe. Ibra wasnt in top form at ajax. There were many doubts about him and didnt score much.

Must have made a mistake with Drenthe, thought he had managed him somewhere...

Zlatan scored a goal every two games for Ajax and based upon his form he earnt a move to Juventus mate

 

[Dirty Dutch]

Must have made a mistake with Drenthe, thought he had managed him somewhere...

Zlatan scored a goal every two games for Ajax and based upon his form he earnt a move to Juventus mate

Yes but in the dutch league that isnt much. Strikers like Huntelaar, V Nistelrooy, Suarez and even Dirk kuyt scored a lot more. In his first season most of the time he was on the bench. In his last game against NAC he scored one of the most beautifull goals i've ever steen in Holland and at the last day of the transferwindow he went to Juventus when he really strarted to develop into the striker he is now.

 

[BigBlueConk]

Looking at the Sissoko sage, despite the post-spin by Everton, he clearly played us.

I trust he will get the welcome he deserves when he eventually plays at GP.
Do not think Everton did much wrong, the player let them all down.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Isnt it a fact that he improved Southamptons position by two places? Meanwhile Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton all nosedived?

So a similar barometer would be him taking us to 9th. Yet youre impressed with his work at southampton and yet would consider the same improvement with Everton as unacceptable.

What needs to be factored in is that its highly unlikely that Koeman will stay at the club for more than 3 seasons (i think two) based on his career. His mandate has to be to get top 6 with the money hes being paid so i would say 6th would be an acceptable position for koeman this season.

Any lower than 6th and i think hes failed especially as the youngest player hes signed for the first team is 27years old so theres linited continuity.

1. Moving from 11th to 9th is not a similar barometer to moving from 8th to 6th. The top 6 is a lot more competitive and difficult to get into. 11th/9th is much of a muchness midtable mediocrity.

2. You say "you would consider a 2 place improvement unacceptable" and then go onto say "any lower than 6th and I think he's failed". So, in other words, you would consider a 2 place improvement unacceptable as well - what is your point?

3. You've previously said you think Koeman will fail, but you accept that 6th place wold be a good finish. He finished 6th with far fewer resources at Southampton, so surely he is capable of that with us?

 

[evo1878]

Would top 6 be considered doing well? Because he's already done that with a weaker Southampton side.

Yes cos most seasons Top 6 gives us a European Tour. It ain't my money being invested, it ain't my bank account being filled with Monopoly money salary, and it ain't my cabinet at home being filled with medals ... But those great European away trips are what me and my mates still talk about.

I'm lucky enough to have seen Everton win the league / cups a couple of times and realistic enough to know the league is probably beyond us until money interest in football declines (it will do one day). Until then all I ask for is tactically astute, pleasing on the eye football resulting in memorable away European trips - and then I'm happy.