Who let Everton/Koeman down?

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From the front page: https://www.grandoldteam.com/2016/0...ads-failed-delivery-evertons-transfer-window/

The over-riding feeling of this transfer window is frustration that we’ve again failed to take full advantage of an opportunity presented to us given our new major shareholder, new manager and Director of Football. It’s clear our recruitment process failed us and as a result we will find it more difficult to advance at the pace we the fans, and I’m sure Moshiri and Koeman had hoped.

I want to give some thought as to why the window has turned out the way it has.

Anyone who has successfully sold products or services, or anyone who has successfully recruited people at the highest levels knows that the most difficult part of the task is usually getting the initial interest. It’s getting that first communication compelling enough to engage the customer or target. That’s why companies spend billions each year on promoting their brand, so that when the opportunity comes along to present the brand to a customer or target there’s as high an engagement rate as possible. Why? Because once you have the engagement, assuming your product or proposition makes sense the rest in my experience is, on a relative basis, much easier.

Now what’s the above got to do with Everton?

We operate in a highly competitive environment and we’re clearly not a premium brand in our own right in the modern game. There are plenty of positives of course, our Premier League status, our fan base, our manager and some of our previous recruitment successes with our players and current squad. There are also negatives – we’re not consistently in Europe, we’ve not won a trophy in 21 years, and we’re some way off being able to guarantee levels of performance and success that attract the very best players.

In examining what we achieved in the transfer window, it seems to me at least that we got the initial pitch correct. We were able to engage our targets and their agents early on in the process of them becoming potential Everton players. The range of players we were linked with suggests that getting through the door to speak to a Witsel, Mata, Carvalho, Brahimi etc was not overly problematic.

The real issue was how and why none of these prospects and several later in the window, even though of lower stature in the game, could not be closed and become Everton players?

For some it was money – Witsel for example where ultimately we pulled out, others Carvalho as an example, listened to the pitch but was not convinced. However many, particularly later on in the window got down to final negotiations, and this is where the problem seems to lie, particularly with overseas players – ultimately we did not have the skills and experience to see the deals across the line.

So what’s to be done about it? Moshiri and Ryazantsev proved their abilities in attracting talent by bringing Koeman and Walsh to the club, and certainly in keeping Lukaku at the club through their meetings with Raiola. Kenwright and Elstone, well what can be said?

Something very badly went wrong in terms of preparation, negotiations and ability to close. I doubt Moshiri with all his experience will allow a similar situation in January. Was he wrong to entrust this element of the task to his Chairman and CEO as the window progressed? Where Moshiri went wrong was in my opinion, not remaining fully briefed on the progress, or lack of, and any issues that were arising. Perhaps towards the end of the window he became more aware of this, particularly with his comment on the state of the transfer window. However the truth is outside of Kenwright and Elstone he had few alternatives to turn to inside the club or board.

Where does it leave us? In organisational terms we need to be able to execute deals efficiently, and in a timely manner with a proper process. I’m not concerned about identification of targets, Walsh and Koeman are perfectly adept at this, Walsh in particular, nor about our initial approach. I am concerned though at Board level we do not have the right people to see us meet our objectives and that’s where the change has to come – something that won’t be lost on Moshiri.

There was considerable talk early in the summer about the prospects of David Dein being introduced into the club. Additionally the BP CFO, Dr Brian Gilvary has been heavily associated with a non-executive position on the board. Neither of these have come to fruition yet, perhaps the timing will coincide with the next phase of Moshiri’s acquisition when he exercises his options agreement with Kenwright, Woods and Abercrombie. I can only hope so.

I’ve read the local media talking about the successes of the window, adopting a balanced approach that we’ve done OK because we’re stronger now than we were at the end of last season. Well frankly that’s not good enough. We have to judge the window on the opportunity that was presented to us and how we failed to take anything like full advantage of that. Had we done so, especially given the start to the season on the pitch, we would have been in a great position to move forward. Sadly we haven’t, and again we’ve allowed our competitors to strengthen at a greater pace than we ourselves have done.

You can’t catch up if you’re still running slower than your completion, and because of the organisational and personnel issues in this window that’s exactly what has happened. We need a football man experienced at the very highest levels of the game in the Chair to run negotiations and a truly world class CEO to execute the deals as they are agreed. Sadly we had neither, and for a while at least our progress on the pitch will be much more difficult because of it.
So, Moshiri and his main man were running the show when we couldn't land a big fish. Got bored. Left it to Bill and Bob and didn't check in on how things were going. And that means it's Bill and Bob's fault that this window became an excrement sandwich? Buck stops with the boss. He can delegate everything except ultimate responsibility.
 
So, Moshiri and his main man were running the show when we couldn't land a big fish. Got bored. Left it to Bill and Bob and didn't check in on how things were going. And that means it's Bill and Bob's fault that this window became an excrement sandwich? Buck stops with the boss. He can delegate everything except ultimate responsibility.

Spot on.

I find it very odd that anyone would try and shift this on to Kenwright and Elstone... when the majority shareholder allowed them to be in the position to screw up.

It's like a hopeless employee being hired despite being obviously hopeless, then predictably being hopeless, and not blaming the person who hired them at all for them being hopeless.

Just a lot of head shaking at what Esk posts recently. It seems to be agenda driven, but for what reason I haven't got an igloo.
 
I just think we are a little late the party.
The year we finally have money... guess what?
Everyone else does.
Drives up prices massively, even for the not so great players.
Paul Pogba cost 92 million. Superb player. But 92 million?
Wouldn't even say he was superb tbh.

That being said, we paid 30m for Bolasie FFS. We only paid 28m for Lukaku.
 
I just think we are a little late the party.
The year we finally have money... guess what?
Everyone else does.
Drives up prices massively, even for the not so great players.
Paul Pogba cost 92 million. Superb player. But 92 million?

yeah, i was always wary that there would be a sense of reluctance from many teams as how prices would go due to the new TV money. Before teams who have asked for stupid evaluations and then eventually buckled late on as they wouldn't be able to afford to keep the player's wages whilst not playing them. Now teams can say to players "sulk all you want, if you don't want to play football, we'll let you rot" ... which is good in a way, sadly the player still get's paid, like.

Our business has been dissapointing, but i don't look at anyone's business with envy. United did the best, but they've spent ridiculous amounts, city have offloaded some very good squad players and haven't really addressed their weaknesses imo, chelsea have vastly overpaid on a bit of meh, spurs have just bought a few squad fillers, leicester have done alright with two great strikers, but apart from that they'll struggle a bit, RS have done their annual business of overpaying on players that they didn't even need, southampton have been ripped apart, west ham's business has been ok and arsene wenger, finally, after about a decade has realised he needed a centre half, a DM and a striker to complement the keeper he finally got lost season; not sure Perez is the benzema/higuain calibre they actually needed though, he's not exactly an upgrade on giroud, but the other two were sound.

I don't think any of those teams that will be around us and above us have strengthened massively, which gives me hope. Just hope the club doesn't have a gloomy look around it after a poor end. But we can still challenge for top 4 if we get to january with an already talented squad and then sell ourselves even better.
 
It's the fact we aren't in europe regularly and haven't won anything since 95. Pretty simple. All we have is cash and history
 
Simple math, really. No Champions League + Kenwright + Elstone = turd taco of a window. My guess is neither will be in charge of much this time next year (I put no stock into the January window asit's always overpriced panic buys).
 
So just what is it?

a) the usual total 'k up, because leaving dumb and dumber in nominal charge shows deep down Moshiri doesn't really, really care, as he Intends to flick us on for a profit...even if it involves putting in some to get even more and getting the ground thing up and running.

b) He thought Bill and Bob can't be that bad surely, I mean they've been doing it for long enough, they must know the basics...and besides I've got other businesses to run and there's no point in keeping a dog and barking yourself.

c) The 'Chinatown' excuse...*shrugs ( whatcha gonna do?) It's Everton.

The lack of response/clarification/denial is a bit of a worry though and the actual phrasing is pure BPB.
 
From the front page: https://www.grandoldteam.com/2016/0...ads-failed-delivery-evertons-transfer-window/

The over-riding feeling of this transfer window is frustration that we’ve again failed to take full advantage of an opportunity presented to us given our new major shareholder, new manager and Director of Football. It’s clear our recruitment process failed us and as a result we will find it more difficult to advance at the pace we the fans, and I’m sure Moshiri and Koeman had hoped.

I want to give some thought as to why the window has turned out the way it has.

Anyone who has successfully sold products or services, or anyone who has successfully recruited people at the highest levels knows that the most difficult part of the task is usually getting the initial interest. It’s getting that first communication compelling enough to engage the customer or target. That’s why companies spend billions each year on promoting their brand, so that when the opportunity comes along to present the brand to a customer or target there’s as high an engagement rate as possible. Why? Because once you have the engagement, assuming your product or proposition makes sense the rest in my experience is, on a relative basis, much easier.

Now what’s the above got to do with Everton?

We operate in a highly competitive environment and we’re clearly not a premium brand in our own right in the modern game. There are plenty of positives of course, our Premier League status, our fan base, our manager and some of our previous recruitment successes with our players and current squad. There are also negatives – we’re not consistently in Europe, we’ve not won a trophy in 21 years, and we’re some way off being able to guarantee levels of performance and success that attract the very best players.

In examining what we achieved in the transfer window, it seems to me at least that we got the initial pitch correct. We were able to engage our targets and their agents early on in the process of them becoming potential Everton players. The range of players we were linked with suggests that getting through the door to speak to a Witsel, Mata, Carvalho, Brahimi etc was not overly problematic.

The real issue was how and why none of these prospects and several later in the window, even though of lower stature in the game, could not be closed and become Everton players?

For some it was money – Witsel for example where ultimately we pulled out, others Carvalho as an example, listened to the pitch but was not convinced. However many, particularly later on in the window got down to final negotiations, and this is where the problem seems to lie, particularly with overseas players – ultimately we did not have the skills and experience to see the deals across the line.

So what’s to be done about it? Moshiri and Ryazantsev proved their abilities in attracting talent by bringing Koeman and Walsh to the club, and certainly in keeping Lukaku at the club through their meetings with Raiola. Kenwright and Elstone, well what can be said?

Something very badly went wrong in terms of preparation, negotiations and ability to close. I doubt Moshiri with all his experience will allow a similar situation in January. Was he wrong to entrust this element of the task to his Chairman and CEO as the window progressed? Where Moshiri went wrong was in my opinion, not remaining fully briefed on the progress, or lack of, and any issues that were arising. Perhaps towards the end of the window he became more aware of this, particularly with his comment on the state of the transfer window. However the truth is outside of Kenwright and Elstone he had few alternatives to turn to inside the club or board.

Where does it leave us? In organisational terms we need to be able to execute deals efficiently, and in a timely manner with a proper process. I’m not concerned about identification of targets, Walsh and Koeman are perfectly adept at this, Walsh in particular, nor about our initial approach. I am concerned though at Board level we do not have the right people to see us meet our objectives and that’s where the change has to come – something that won’t be lost on Moshiri.

There was considerable talk early in the summer about the prospects of David Dein being introduced into the club. Additionally the BP CFO, Dr Brian Gilvary has been heavily associated with a non-executive position on the board. Neither of these have come to fruition yet, perhaps the timing will coincide with the next phase of Moshiri’s acquisition when he exercises his options agreement with Kenwright, Woods and Abercrombie. I can only hope so.

I’ve read the local media talking about the successes of the window, adopting a balanced approach that we’ve done OK because we’re stronger now than we were at the end of last season. Well frankly that’s not good enough. We have to judge the window on the opportunity that was presented to us and how we failed to take anything like full advantage of that. Had we done so, especially given the start to the season on the pitch, we would have been in a great position to move forward. Sadly we haven’t, and again we’ve allowed our competitors to strengthen at a greater pace than we ourselves have done.

You can’t catch up if you’re still running slower than your completion, and because of the organisational and personnel issues in this window that’s exactly what has happened. We need a football man experienced at the very highest levels of the game in the Chair to run negotiations and a truly world class CEO to execute the deals as they are agreed. Sadly we had neither, and for a while at least our progress on the pitch will be much more difficult because of it.


1-- In my experience, it is very easy to get people to the table when you make an initial 'pitch' or even have an informal chat with them. 9 times out of 10 anyone will listen to what you have to say.

When you factor in that Everton would be discussing with clubs (who all accept crazy offers) and agents (who want to line their own pockets) then i would put this number at 10/10.

There is no reason i can think of for a club or agent not to listen to our pitch.


2-- If a bid is successful and then terms are stated by the agent, we should then be in a negotiating position as follows:

A-- Agree terms with the agent who acts on behalf of the player.

B-- Have Koeman call the player to finally 'close the deal'.

Quite clearly we failed at one or the other stage in every single major transfer.

In your post, you agree with the above. However you use 'Kenwright and Elstone' as the only two examples. You also state that Walsh and Koeman are adept at picking targets...well, half the forum can pick out a target.

The responsibility of the manager is to contact the player and meet them or have a phonecall (as highlighted with Bellamy/Moyes and Koeman/Sissoko.

I feel that it is disengenious to put the blame at Kenwright / Elstones feet and not Koemans.

(Note: You stated as fact that neither of the two who you are annointing with the full blame were involved with transfers any longer. This stance changed when Kenwrights name and involvement was mentioned in the press).


3-- The rest of your post is spot on. In fact, the blame can be laid squarely at Moshiris' feet for the lack of an 'icon' and experienced businessmen on the board. Additionally Ryantsev is new to football and can not be expected to out manouvre agents or competitors within a couple of months.


Moshiri and Koeman are to blame and this is quite clear.
 
@theesk

The issue I see with your write up is comparing our initial sales pitch to that of salesmanship in general. Typically, a consumer doesn't have anything to gain in engaging with you if they are not interested in your product. This isn't true here, actually the opposite is true. It's in players and agents best interest to string an interested team along, as it boosts their negotiating position with other clubs, or the club they are currently contracted with. Everton having money is all the better for them to use us as leverage. Actually closing the deal is the harder part...


Precisely....
 
Very interesting article from Paul Joyce which I'm pleased to say is consistent with much of the information I provided throughout the summer, particularly our desire to go big in the market early on, Witsel for example, Moshiri's willingness to provide funds for transfers and ultimately as per my article today our inability to convert interest into closure.

Good read


And, in the centre of the article he lays blame at Koeman (also Walsh).
 
The problem with blaming Koeman is that bringing Walsh in was supposed to make it so Koeman had a very minimal role in pushing transfers through. I'm not sure if that actually happened but it seems like the fact that he tried to call Sissoko is being used as evidence he was in the negotiations when he easily could have just been welcoming him after Everton thought the negotiations were done
 
@theesk I remember very early on in the window airing my concerns about our ability to get deals done. I heavily criticised Kenwright and Elstone- citing them as being the real problem.

I'm sure you said they were no longer involved in transfer negotiations (Kenwright for sure).

Do you think Moshiri has given them a final opportunity for them to show their worth? Because it's clearly failed.
 
We needed to get a big name signed up early and others would have followed and we needed the start of a "reputation"
Once Witsel played us off to get to Juventus we should have moved on, thanks Axel, next
We needed to play hardball from the outset, big wages mate, you have a week to decide.
Process fell down and we need an enforcer to codify and make sure the new way was adhered to!
 
And, in the centre of the article he lays blame at Koeman (also Walsh).

Not having a go at you. But to me that means, his source is likely someone close to BK or Elstone. The manager doesn't do the contracts and is not responsible for getting deals across the line. He didn't have this problem at a lesser team in Southhampton.

In the years I have been following Everton BK in charge for all and Elstone for a majority. Everton have been good at delaying sales for top dollar ( a good thing) and generally taking forever to make a purchase (not a good thing). So tell me who has been in a position to make those decisions for the past 10 years it certainly hasn't been Koeman and Walsh. Maybe Moshiri deserves blame for not pushing BK out earlier and not replacing Elstone with a competent executive.

Ultimately this to me just reaffirms that BK and Elstone are completely out of their depth. The sooner they are gone the better. Spurs show how an organization is competently run by a strong executive and an owner that empowers his executive to make the decisions.

Our owner empowered the wrong executives. Hopefully he will learn a lesson and get rid of those two.
 
1-- In my experience, it is very easy to get people to the table when you make an initial 'pitch' or even have an informal chat with them. 9 times out of 10 anyone will listen to what you have to say.

When you factor in that Everton would be discussing with clubs (who all accept crazy offers) and agents (who want to line their own pockets) then i would put this number at 10/10.

There is no reason i can think of for a club or agent not to listen to our pitch.


2-- If a bid is successful and then terms are stated by the agent, we should then be in a negotiating position as follows:

A-- Agree terms with the agent who acts on behalf of the player.

B-- Have Koeman call the player to finally 'close the deal'.

Quite clearly we failed at one or the other stage in every single major transfer.

In your post, you agree with the above. However you use 'Kenwright and Elstone' as the only two examples. You also state that Walsh and Koeman are adept at picking targets...well, half the forum can pick out a target.

The responsibility of the manager is to contact the player and meet them or have a phonecall (as highlighted with Bellamy/Moyes and Koeman/Sissoko.

I feel that it is disengenious to put the blame at Kenwright / Elstones feet and not Koemans.

(Note: You stated as fact that neither of the two who you are annointing with the full blame were involved with transfers any longer. This stance changed when Kenwrights name and involvement was mentioned in the press).


3-- The rest of your post is spot on. In fact, the blame can be laid squarely at Moshiris' feet for the lack of an 'icon' and experienced businessmen on the board. Additionally Ryantsev is new to football and can not be expected to out manouvre agents or competitors within a couple of months.


Moshiri and Koeman are to blame and this is quite clear.
You talk as though you are experienced in conducting football transfers. If you are Zat, then I hold my hand up and apologise for what follows.

1. You infer that professional football transfer transactions are exactly the same as normal business transactions. You may well be correct. I don't know, but I'd be absolutely amazed if they were.

2. You state that 10/10 players or agents would be prepared to meet with us to listen to our pitch. Again, you may be correct, but I would suggest that all agents would first look at our club, it's standing, history, recent success and whether we have European competition, before agreeing to meet up. Of the calibre of player we were after this window, I would imagine less than 5/10 would even bother. These guys are really busy and represent numerous footballers in addition to other sportsmen/women.

3. You have totally over simplified the negotiations process, stating that it is simply a case of agreeing financials with the agent and Koeman getting on the phone to the player telling him what a great guy he is. And if it doesn't go through it's obviously either his or Moshiri's fault. What world do you live in?. Most of our transfer targets have fallen down due to either

a) Selling club moving the goal posts (Kone, Brahimi, Gabbiadini)
b) Agent using us to get better deals for player (Arnautovic, Ghezzal)
c) Players wanting European football (Witzel, Perez, Sissoko)

Basically Morishi/Koeman couldn't do too much to affect those transfers.

You've made it quite clear over numerous posts that you don't rate either Moshiri or Koeman, and you are totally entitled to your view and your right to showcase on here. But this post is just a another fabrication to justify your views, with no facts to back it up, and that's where I think you cross the line sometimes.

Moshiri and koeman aren't going anywhere for some time, regardless of your opinion. I'm sure you'd make your life a lot easier if you got behind them and the team, at least for a while, and see how things go.

You can still claim the higher moral ground if things go apeshit!!
 
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