What's the plan?

[jceverton]

Hello mein frandels

I will try and keep this short (rather than the excellent prose written by @catcherintherye and others) because any more than 500 words and I'll be running out of letters.

Now the transfer window has closed and we are a season into the Ronald Trump / Steve Walsh Revolution, what do you think the intended plan or style of play is for this version of the mighty Blues?

The last senior game before Koeman joined, we lined up like this

Howard
Pennington (Kenny)
Stones
Jagielka
Baines
McCarthy (Lennon)
Barry
Dowell (Barkley)
Davies
Mirallas
Lukaku

Broadly speaking (and not including the general mayhem of the Martinez final two seasons) the club played a certain way - even at junior level. 4 at the back, a strong base in midfield, a player roaming behind the striker(s) and either wingers and one striker, or one defensive midfielder two strikers two wingers (the latter more common in Unsworth's sides than with Martinez). The general idea was to get the ball to the man behind the strikers (Barkley at senior level, Dowell at junior) would in theory either play in the striker or play it wide for a cross. The six at the back (defenders / midfielders) would provide the strong base (again, worked well first season, theory fell apart entirely in the second).

Go forward to 11th March 2017. Koeman had been here a while, Walsh had had two windows to work in, and we win 3-0 at home against West Brom, who at that point were one position behind us in the league.

Robles
Coleman
Jagielka
Williams
Baines (Funes Mori)
Schneiderlin
Barry (DCL)
Barkley
Davies
Mirallas (Gueye)
Lukaku

Again, the manager's ideas and intended style of play was pretty obvious here. Solid defensive platform and control the game. Get a goal and shut down the game, knowing that your centre forward was always likely to score a half chance to put you two (or in this case three) up and kill the game entirely. You couldn't rely on Lukaku to keep the ball for you in the final third but that didn't really matter as you could strangle the life out midfield and the defensive third with two of three from Barry, Schneiderlin and Gueye. The side had goals in it (hence the many different scorers) so again, it wasn't critical to get it to Lukaku immediately - he'd likely score at some point anyway.

Let's go to this season and the recent defeat at Chelsea, following a disjointed (rather than unsuccessful) start to the season.


Pickford
Keane
Williams
Jagielka (Lennon)
Holgate
Davies (Besic)
Gueye
Baines
Rooney
Sigurdsson
Ramírez (DCL)


Broadly speaking that lineup has most of what you would say are the 'better' Everton players in it (minus the injured Klaassen, Bolasie, Coleman etc and the suspended Schneiderlin). You can see where the injured players would naturally sub in here (apart from Bolasie).

What is the intended style of play here? What plan have the signings been brought into to implement or improve upon?

You're not going to see pacey full back play from Baines / Holgate, who in theory are released more from their defensive duties because of the three centre backs.

Perhaps you've got more control in the final third than when we had Lukaku, but you've also got a very congested area for these players to work in (usually not a positive) and on current evidence unlikely to have a player who will score you 1 goal every 2 games, sometimes out of very little.

Unlike nearly every successful top tier club in the world this season (or in recent seasons) you've got no change of pace, very little explosive movement, and not much in the way of 10+ goals from midfield type players.

With the possible exception of Pickford and Keane, you've got little quality distribution from the back, (not 'the goalkeeper', just Pickford, as if Robles or Stek subs in you lose possibility this instantly). I include the full backs here.

My general argument here is that there doesn't seem to be much joined up thinking at the moment, no identifiable style of play, nor the recruitment to actualise it. Both Koeman and Walsh came from sides where they had implemented a playing style; Koeman a hold-up striker with pacy support [Pelle / Mane], Walsh had a deep-lying midfielder (Drinkwater) spraying long passes to pacy wingers (Mahrez) and a pacy, in-form striker (Vardy) who would be assisted in the dirty work by an industrious support striker (often Okazaki). Currently, I can't see what we are trying to achieve.

Good article the bits in bold are the crux of the matter. I can't see where we are going either other than it's going to be a long hard season.

 

[orly]

Back to the future then.

Moyes era circa 2005

One nil.....to Everton-er-ton.....

Arguably, Moyes had to have us playing that way (though I think he loved it really) due to the limitations of his playing options and squad quality.

But even there, there was a plan. Got much more out of his fullbacks, when he had Lescott he had a centre back who could score goals, two widemen who could win clever freekicks and control play in the final third (Pienaar and Arteta when played wide). Then he had Fellaini who could reliably hold the ball in the final third. No surprise at all really that your Osman vs Larissa goals and this 'style' of play worked best when he also had a target man who could also score goals in Yakubu.

 

[Blue Juice]

1.Goal kick.
2.To left back.
3.To centre mid.
4.To other centre mid (x2-27 times)
5.To left back
6.To goalkeeper
7.HOOOOOOOOOF to any available midget
8.Ball lost
9.Gana retrieves.
Repeat through point 3 onwards until ball goes out for another goal kick

 

[Gladystweet]

Sexy it ain't going to be.

Effective non-sexy on the other hand, is achievable.

I just hope Ron has a plan..and the tools..at his disposal

 

[Eggs]

...probably different ways of playing, one with and one without DCL. I thought there were positive signs of a slicker passing game in the home match v Hadjuk Split. Players getting beyond the CF (Rooney in that game, Gueye scoring). What we don't know is how Sigurdsson will fit.

DCL playing allows more of an 'out ball' when we're under the cosh (as with City away). If DCL doesn't play, long balls will tend to come immediately back.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Hello mein frandels

I will try and keep this short (rather than the excellent prose written by @catcherintherye and others) because any more than 500 words and I'll be running out of letters.

Now the transfer window has closed and we are a season into the Ronald Trump / Steve Walsh Revolution, what do you think the intended plan or style of play is for this version of the mighty Blues?

The last senior game before Koeman joined, we lined up like this

Howard
Pennington (Kenny)
Stones
Jagielka
Baines
McCarthy (Lennon)
Barry
Dowell (Barkley)
Davies
Mirallas
Lukaku

Broadly speaking (and not including the general mayhem of the Martinez final two seasons) the club played a certain way - even at junior level. 4 at the back, a strong base in midfield, a player roaming behind the striker(s) and either wingers and one striker, or one defensive midfielder two strikers two wingers (the latter more common in Unsworth's sides than with Martinez). The general idea was to get the ball to the man behind the strikers (Barkley at senior level, Dowell at junior) would in theory either play in the striker or play it wide for a cross. The six at the back (defenders / midfielders) would provide the strong base (again, worked well first season, theory fell apart entirely in the second).

Go forward to 11th March 2017. Koeman had been here a while, Walsh had had two windows to work in, and we win 3-0 at home against West Brom, who at that point were one position behind us in the league.

Robles
Coleman
Jagielka
Williams
Baines (Funes Mori)
Schneiderlin
Barry (DCL)
Barkley
Davies
Mirallas (Gueye)
Lukaku

Again, the manager's ideas and intended style of play was pretty obvious here. Solid defensive platform and control the game. Get a goal and shut down the game, knowing that your centre forward was always likely to score a half chance to put you two (or in this case three) up and kill the game entirely. You couldn't rely on Lukaku to keep the ball for you in the final third but that didn't really matter as you could strangle the life out midfield and the defensive third with two of three from Barry, Schneiderlin and Gueye. The side had goals in it (hence the many different scorers) so again, it wasn't critical to get it to Lukaku immediately - he'd likely score at some point anyway.

Let's go to this season and the recent defeat at Chelsea, following a disjointed (rather than unsuccessful) start to the season.


Pickford
Keane
Williams
Jagielka (Lennon)
Holgate
Davies (Besic)
Gueye
Baines
Rooney
Sigurdsson
Ramírez (DCL)


Broadly speaking that lineup has most of what you would say are the 'better' Everton players in it (minus the injured Klaassen, Bolasie, Coleman etc and the suspended Schneiderlin). You can see where the injured players would naturally sub in here (apart from Bolasie).

What is the intended style of play here? What plan have the signings been brought into to implement or improve upon?

You're not going to see pacey full back play from Baines / Holgate, who in theory are released more from their defensive duties because of the three centre backs.

Perhaps you've got more control in the final third than when we had Lukaku, but you've also got a very congested area for these players to work in (usually not a positive) and on current evidence unlikely to have a player who will score you 1 goal every 2 games, sometimes out of very little.

Unlike nearly every successful top tier club in the world this season (or in recent seasons) you've got no change of pace, very little explosive movement, and not much in the way of 10+ goals from midfield type players.

With the possible exception of Pickford and Keane, you've got little quality distribution from the back, (not 'the goalkeeper', just Pickford, as if Robles or Stek subs in you lose possibility this instantly). I include the full backs here.

My general argument here is that there doesn't seem to be much joined up thinking at the moment, no identifiable style of play, nor the recruitment to actualise it. Both Koeman and Walsh came from sides where they had implemented a playing style; Koeman a hold-up striker with pacy support [Pelle / Mane], Walsh had a deep-lying midfielder (Drinkwater) spraying long passes to pacy wingers (Mahrez) and a pacy, in-form striker (Vardy) who would be assisted in the dirty work by an industrious support striker (often Okazaki). Currently, I can't see what we are trying to achieve.

Glad you kept it short mate

To answer your question though, I haven't got a clue . We have brought in a lot of intelligent attack minded players but lack the striker to piece it all together. Our lack of wingers assume width will come from our full backs, but Coleman will miss at least half of the season and we have nobody on the other flank to do this either. In 2 of the 3 games so far we have set up to play on the counter, but don't have the personnel for this (will be better in this regard once Bolasie and Coleman return).

It's possible that DCL may turn into the link striker we need but it's asking a lot of the lad. We also need time for Gylfi, Klaassen and Sandro to settle in. Klaassen especially as the other players need to get used to what he brings to the team as they're on a completely different wavelength at the moment. I don't think we'll know if or how this is gong to work until well into the season, and until then I expect our play to
continue to be at best, disjointed.

One thing in your post I disagreed with mate was Baines's distribution. There probably aren't many better left backs (as regards distribution) in the league imo. It's the pace he lacks now and I think this makes him reluctant to get forward as often.

I see us having to buy in at least 3 positions to play the way Koeman wants. Striker, ball playing LCB and attacking LB. In the meantime I see us difficult to beat and heavily reliant on set pieces to score. We'll improve once our injured players are back aswell.

 

[MACCA75]

Have to agree tbh and really have to question what the strategy was behind our transfer dealings.
Expecting a lot of 1-0, 1-1 games this season.
Paying all that money for Sigurdsson and then not having anyone in the box for him to hit, seems especially strange.

 

[RomanReigns]

Pickford
Coleman
Keane
Williams
Baines
Gueye
Schneiderlin
Bolasie
Klaasen
Sigurdsson
Calvert Lewin

Rooney, Davies, Lookman, Vlasic, Stek, Barkley, Sandro

 

[Timak]

When he came in he said we lacked pace and power in the attacking third.

He already had Lukaku and Barkley and added Bolasie.

Well we've lost all 3 of those players for various reasons, none have been replaced and instead he has spent really heavily on 3 players that don't naturally fit into his previously stated preferred formation.

I've said for ages our recruitment is illogical and will cost the manager his job. Where the blame lies is something we don't know but we do know the signings of Klaassen and Rooney were completed ages before Sigurdsson signed. They should either have got Sig first and not signed the other two or spent the time/money on players we needed rather than getting Sig.

 

[orly]

...probably different ways of playing, one with and one without DCL. I thought there were positive signs of a slicker passing game in the home match v Hadjuk Split. Players getting beyond the CF (Rooney in that game, Gueye scoring). What we don't know is how Sigurdsson will fit.

DCL playing allows more of an 'out ball' when we're under the cosh (as with City away). If DCL doesn't play, long balls will tend to come immediately back.

Hadjuk Split would be a relegation-quality unit in our league. Sort of the level of those Derby / Bradford / Sunderland sides that set records.

If we've gone into the season with our 'superior' style of play based around Calvert-Lewin we are in the deepest poo poo.

 

[sageyefc]

Slow boring hoofball

 

[orly]

1.Goal kick.
2.To left back.
3.To centre mid.
4.To other centre mid (x2-27 times)
5.To left back
6.To goalkeeper
7.HOOOOOOOOOF to any available midget
8.Ball lost
9.Gana retrieves.
Repeat through point 3 onwards until ball goes out for another goal kick

I know a lot of this is (probably) in jest, but against Split we were playing it high and long to Lookman. Madness.

Thing is I'm genuinely not looking for this to be a slating Koeman or Walsh type thread (though others can if they choose). I've admitted that they both have a track record of implementing or supporting the implementation of a clear style of play - and not even the same approach.

Currently, I just can't see what we are trying to do or recall any successful parallels.

 

[Eggs]

Hadjuk Split would be a relegation-quality unit in our league. Sort of the level of those Derby / Bradford / Sunderland sides that set records.

If we've gone into the season with our 'superior' style of play based around Calvert-Lewin we are in the deepest poo poo.

...but there were signs and I found that encouraging following the pre-season and Stoke game. Key is also bringing tempo to our game, we have acquired good footballers but that doesn't always equate to a good team. Finding the blend is key but my fear is being creative with a threat away from home, especially against the better teams.

The other factor is the return of Coleman and Bolasie.

 

[sageyefc]

And also for supposedly having all of these creative players now and a million number 10s, we're not very creative at all

 

[Timak]

Good post mert.

Note how well grouped the rest of the top 7 (apart from Chelsea) are, and also note just how HUGE outliers we are in terms of numbers rather than just position on the table. We are total turd right now to the point where if this doesn't change, Koeman will be gone before the end of the season. It might change, of course (it bloody better) - Sigurddsson, Vlasic, Sandro, Klaassen, Lookman could all start flying, and 3 games is a small sample size - but that's where we are right now. We're not doing 'okay' - we're DREADFUL.


In this case, 'good' chances means chances with a historical 8% or higher conversion rate

I completely agree but we have played City and Chelsea plus Stoke so I'd assume we'll close in on the other bog average sides.

However I keep saying (to the point of annoying everyone) we didn't create great chances last season, we just had a top quality striker who played every game. Our best open play creator was Barkley, and he by far outperformed the players we've bought in to replace him in the creative role.

So basically a not very creative team have lost their best creator and their best (only?) finisher of chances.

And when I was whinging on about signing the wrong players all summer it was because it was obvious.

We could have Iheanacho (who signed for Leicester for £25m) and someone like Balde (who joined Monaco for £30m) for the price we paid for Sigurdsson and we'd be FAR more potent a reckoning.