What can get people to stand on their own feet?

[davek]

I quite agree Mike. People here don't seem anywhere near frightened enough about the threat posed by the rapidly emerging nations. I mean China isn't producing cheap plastic crap any more, those sorts of things are increasingly made in places like Vietnam or Pakistan. They're producing detailed and complex stuff, for much less than we can. I was watching a q&a session with Brown and people in Birmingham yesterday and they were all complaining about the loss of manufacturing jobs. It's like their oblivious to the fact that there are people doing it as well as us (if not better) but for a whole lot less money. Brown was (somewhat feebly) saying we have to pull our fingers out to create the competitive advantage, but folks just don't like change.

The American and British culture over the last decade has been funded by Asia, as Chinese savings have funded the debt fuelled splurge both countries have gone on. The ironic thing is that now we're praying that the Chinese start buying more and saving less to get the west out of this mess. Militarily America is still the kingmaker but economically I think that ball lies in China's court now. Much as Dave likes to bash the bankers (and I personally think they should have suffered more - bail-outs do not encourage behaviour to change), finance is the one industry we have where we lead the world. I dread to think the state of our economy without it.

I dont know where to start on this contradictory post. Suffice to say you put your finger on the structural imbalance in our economy that sees us reliant on the (crisis prone) City to fund welfare and much else besides from taxation of that sector - then you end up arguing the case for keeping our 'world lead' in this sector which reinforces the structural imbalance that makes our economy particularly vulnerable to recession! I think you'll find that Brown (and others on the political spectrum, to be fair) have been arguing of late for a levelling out of our economy that sees much more emphasis on capital investment in a green economy....making Britain a place that leads the way in development and research for new carbon efficient technology. The political class well recognise the shifts (which you outline above) that globalisation caused. They've drawn the correct conclusions from the recession as it impacts us; you - because of your own sectional interest - cant bring yourself to, and seem intent on compounding the problem.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

I quite agree Mike. People here don't seem anywhere near frightened enough about the threat posed by the rapidly emerging nations. I mean China isn't producing cheap plastic crap any more, those sorts of things are increasingly made in places like Vietnam or Pakistan. They're producing detailed and complex stuff, for much less than we can. I was watching a q&a session with Brown and people in Birmingham yesterday and they were all complaining about the loss of manufacturing jobs. It's like their oblivious to the fact that there are people doing it as well as us (if not better) but for a whole lot less money. Brown was (somewhat feebly) saying we have to pull our fingers out to create the competitive advantage, but folks just don't like change.

The American and British culture over the last decade has been funded by Asia, as Chinese savings have funded the debt fuelled splurge both countries have gone on. The ironic thing is that now we're praying that the Chinese start buying more and saving less to get the west out of this mess. Militarily America is still the kingmaker but economically I think that ball lies in China's court now. Much as Dave likes to bash the bankers (and I personally think they should have suffered more - bail-outs do not encourage behaviour to change), finance is the one industry we have where we lead the world. I dread to think the state of our economy without it.

Bruce you are 100% correct. Finance is the only way forward to provide the imputus for both nations to succeed. But, I too distrust the bigger banking empires such as our own JPMorgan Chase & Goldman Sachs(whom have both had a greedy hand in distrupting Greece and bringing it to it's knees to slow the decline in the almighty dollar and the US bond(debt) bubble.) Most markets are not functioning the way they are suppose too and like a football match the competition for most of our resources are now more and more being wanted by future titans China & India. China which holds a lot of the US debt understands to keep it's nation of savers happy is to make Silver & Gold readily available at their local corner shop or banks for someday they know the US will either devalue their currency or default. I do expect the Chinese will want a standard of living comparable to us someday and begin to want some of the finer things of life which will slow the descent of the broken currencies we hold in our hands but you have to follow history and the lost decade of Japan to see this will be a slow process. Even Tim Geithner hasn't a chance in hell convincing the Chinese anything at the moment, most of the time they are laughing behind his back. To be honest I completely understand their position.

The only thing that I see is most people on main street haven't a clue what is really happening except for those who have just recently lost their jobs or know a family member that has had that same misfortune. Credit is next to impossible to get unless you really don't need it. I have a Irish mate who plays indoor footie in the winter with me he works in Knoxville but flies back home to Dublin on a regular basis he said the Irish banks are sunk with outsized staggering bank losses and he expects nasty uprisings in the near future as hardships are not getting any better.

At the moment have China stopped buying our debt? I wonder? Some noted commentaries I follow are saying that the Federal reserve and JPMChase are buying the debt to keep the impression of successful sales at auction. How long will this be able to go on? About the same as the Welfare system staying afloat when entitlements are now at a much higher rate than tax revenues to fund them. The dumbing down is nearly complete.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Dave they've been going on about the green economy for years now. We're already well behind. Can you name a single British company that leads the world in wind or solar technology? We do ok with tidal power but to be honest that's unlikely to be a huge industry, and the government have provided no help with things like the proposed scheme on the Severn river. It's a mirage. I mean every government proposed lots of green spending in their stimulus packages. How much has actually happened and what good has it done?

Our schools have a well known problem churning out enough kids with skills in science and maths, which translates into a very low throughput into students doing engineering at university. The green industry has said many times in recent years that we simply don't have the skills to compete. I can't help but think we have missed the boat on that one in a big way as the whole energy situation has been poorly handled. We don't have any native expertise in nuclear power, and NIMBY's have prevented any kind of swift decision making on new builds there. Meanwhile North Sea oil and gas is dwindling, thus leaving us increasingly dependant on the likes of Russia to keep our lights on. No wonder they're hoping for a big find out in the Falklands. There have been some difficult decisions required to get our energy security in a good place, and the government have bungled it. Sadly I suspect all of the other parties would have done exactly the same as politics is riddled with short-termism with few looking beyond their term of office.

By the way, I don't think we need to rob Peter to pay Paul, so it would not be a good idea to weaken the finance industry to make others look good.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

I dont know where to start on this contradictory post. Suffice to say you put your finger on the structural imbalance in our economy that sees us reliant on the (crisis prone) City to fund welfare and much else besides from taxation of that sector - then you end up arguing the case for keeping our 'world lead' in this sector which reinforces the structural imbalance that makes our economy particularly vulnerable to recession! I think you'll find that Brown (and others on the political spectrum, to be fair) have been arguing of late for a levelling out of our economy that sees much more emphasis on capital investment in a green economy....making Britain a place that leads the way in development and research for new carbon efficient technology. The political class well recognise the shifts (which you outline above) that globalisation caused. They've drawn the correct conclusions from the recession as it impacts us; you - because of your own sectional interest - cant bring yourself to, and seem intent on compounding the problem.

Dave can we ship you a fine Tennessean Al Gore to help in your green economy? He is a firm believer if he can line his pockets with mucho denaro. Because the sad fact is the nations who are in the forefront of this great deception can't afford to implement it. It is another way a government can and will control it's population. Good luck on getting the Chinese on board on being tree huggers and clean air freaks. Chances are very slim they will be part of total world compliance to stop the ice melt. Trying not to sound too disrespectful I do think less dependence on foreign oil is a must for our countries to become great again but this investment at this time is just piling on as more jobs just won't be created from the ones lost.

Wasn't it Gordon Brown that sold all the Queens gold for a mere pitance? So I hope he has turned over a new leaf and has put some thought into how this venture will pan out.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1655001.ece Dated article but a big blunder.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8614180.stm

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Russia has Europe in it's grip on Natural Gas similar to China having it's grip on the US in the debt market.

Not very comforting is it?

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

Our schools have a well known problem churning out enough kids with skills in science and maths, which translates into a very low throughput into students doing engineering at university.

There were never actually that many going from school to uni to do engineering, the majority would go at age 21 after apprenticeship and HNC at college on day release, then get work sponsorship.
Some people seem to think that everything revolves around going to university, the engineers that will produce the things don't go to university they do apprenticeships, things aren't produced by unskilled workers with a couple of graduates in an office, you have to have skilled workers. Same goes for the designers of products as well, they gain practical experience before going on to designing, seems that these days a degree is the be all and end all of everything, well in manufacturing that just isn't the case, you need practical experience on the job, and you can have as many quals. as you like but without any practical exp. then you don't know anything.
Sadly, as the manufacturing industry has declined in this country the people with all the experience have said stuff it and either moved abroad or found something else to do, with the wages that have been on offer and the powers to be not supporting the industries, those skills have been lost forever, it would be nigh on impossible to get these people back into it again now without paying huge salaries and even then people would say no thanks.

 

[davek]

Sadly, as the manufacturing industry has declined in this country the people with all the experience have said stuff it and either moved abroad or found something else to do, with the wages that have been on offer and the powers to be not supporting the industries, those skills have been lost forever, it would be nigh on impossible to get these people back into it again now without paying huge salaries and even then people would say no thanks.

Precisely. And that's a drain on talent that's been encouraged by the wages on offer in the financial sector, itself a by-product of deregulation. Little wonder the best minds have drifted off into speculation rather than engineering and design - and universities became infested with business departments in the long boom. You end up with an economy beholden to its non-productive sector like no other.

 

[davek]

Dave they've been going on about the green economy for years now. We're already well behind. Can you name a single British company that leads the world in wind or solar technology? We do ok with tidal power but to be honest that's unlikely to be a huge industry, and the government have provided no help with things like the proposed scheme on the Severn river. It's a mirage. I mean every government proposed lots of green spending in their stimulus packages. How much has actually happened and what good has it done?

That's right, Britain lags in those areas of production. But you say all that like the financial sector in this country and its preference to invest abroad is not related to the stunted growth in this new area. Speculation goes hand in hand with short termism; production of real stuff requires a long term approach to investment I'd imagine. Who wants the the problem of all that nurturing of a manufacturing sector when you can plough in pensions to some stock or other on the other side of the globe and increase profits that way?

 

[KelseyGrammer-Beast-SuitsBlue]

5m people currently subsist on state benefits in Britain, which is the same number as did so when Labour came to power in 1997. This despite the billions that have been thrown at this by the government in handouts, get back to work schemes, education iniatives.

What can get people to stand on their own feet?

Decent jobs? Value for money in terms of what the tax taken gets spent on (shouldn't be moats, duck ponds, second and third houses etc)? A quality of life putting a shift in that has its rewards instead of a similar quality of life doing nothing? The relegation of the inducement of 'the vinegar strokes' regarding celebrity? Greed, dishonesty, corruption, all reduced so that the spectre of cynicism is reduced in the masses?

There are pensioners and children living in poverty in this country, going without, and there are a lot of criminals, white collar and locked up enjoying a much higher state of living off the back of their crimes. Maybe a bit of 'social justice' might go a long way to cajoling parts of the disenfranchised masses that just saying 'f*%8 it' is not the way forward.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/168128

Greed,dishonesty and corruption take on many forms.

 

[Bundy]

I'm on benefits . ( I AM a Scouser , after all . )
I've got a degree and speak a couple of languages , but I'm waiting on some Hossy treatment , thus am un-employable , just at the minute .
People are different . Some don't mind no job . others take their own lives .
Me ?? I'm just bored rigid , to be honest .
Hence this G.O.T. [Poor language removed] all day .

So thats why your so hard to understand.

 

[daza_1973]

Read this today - question : how can you ever change people with this mentality ???........... Answer : - you can't


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.html

And the sad thing is the parents values will no doubt be passed on to the ever increasing off-spring...
and so on and so on.....

 

[Robert Jarvis]

Just a quick one, dividends are not liabile to national insurance which is a hell of a big saving.

 

[Rook]

5m people currently subsist on state benefits in Britain, which is the same number as did so when Labour came to power in 1997. This despite the billions that have been thrown at this by the government in handouts, get back to work schemes, education iniatives.

What can get people to stand on their own feet?

In America we have 2.5-3 million people who are wards of the state and the cost of housing them are anywhere between 40-60K/year. These leeches get a free ride and don't even bother looking for job. Granted its prison but on the bright side you do get free healthcare.

 

[chicoazul]

In America we have 2.5-3 million people who are wards of the state and the cost of housing them are anywhere between 40-60K/year. These leeches get a free ride and don't even bother looking for job. Granted its prison but on the bright side you do get free healthcare.

Games the game man.