Was Dunc right for hooking Kean?

[Lanolin]

Btw, that's my tweet

These stats really aren't misleading.

Holgate, for example, covered the most ground in our team and you'd expect that. Rich/DCL just behind him.

Our FBs hardly bombed up yesterday and their stats are lower, bar Coleman's sprints (most of which I guess came from sprinting back)

Bernard only covered 8k in his 60+ mins. He usually gets up into the 10/11k mark so maybe he was on par, but he only sprinted 6 times too. Because of how we played - very narrow etc.

He had the fourth highest number of sprints in the team. That's just a fact.

He also averages out about on par when it comes to the distance covered, when compared to Rich (11km) who gets rightly praised for his work.

I'm not saying it's a lie, i'm saying it can be misleading. There's a difference.

If you send a sub on for 20 minutes and say look, all I ask of you is that you run like hell; close people down, make yourself an outlet every time we get the ball, chase every punt upfield like your life depends on it, then his stats are going to be very different to someone who you've asked to play a more controlled role over 90 minutes. That means comparing the two is misleading.

 

[Lanolin]

'Put himself about'

Niasse spent his four minutes standing central.

One time he went to our right, and conceded a foul. Another time he went to our left, and conceded a foul.

For the sake of all of this, in four minutes, could Kean not have just been told - "here lad, stay in the middle, run to the left once, run to the right once'?

Have you considered the possibility that we may have spent the previous 19 minutes giving him that exact message?

 

[BlueToff]

Can you post the tackles/fouls and passes/pass accuracy of both Niasse and Kean you are using please Toff as the data I have seen from whoscored gives a far less flattering impression of Kean compared to Niasse.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376298/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-United-Everton

My impression real time was Kean was trying, jusr was confused as to his role and seemed an obvious weak link to give away possession through either a poor pass, foul or poor positioning.

So, Kean had 9 touches in total (all over the pitch). He had 5 duels (won none - not good), and conceded three fouls.

Niasse had three touches (according to this data), conceded two fouls, and won 1 of his 2 duels.

Passing wise, Kean attempted 3, made 1 successful pass. Niasse made 1 successful pass, and that was the only one he attempted.

That's the stats I have.

Again, I'm not saying Kean played massively well. I just don't see what damage he was doing that meant he couldn't play four minutes for the sake of what we got from Niasse.

And the effort thing - well the stats on distances/speed/sprints say the effort was there. That shouldn't have resulted in him looking like he'd run half a marathon, but still, it was there, and I watched the game and thought the same thing. At no point was I thinking 'he's not put the effort in' and I'd argue that the people who are saying that are only doing so because he got taken off.

If he hadn't have been, it'd have been 'sloppy, but worked for the team' or whatever.

 

[BlueToff]

Have you considered the possibility that we may have spent the previous 19 minutes giving him that exact message?

Maybe, but when I was watching it, it was clear Kean was played in two very different roles and (in the minutes before he went off) he was played in a third role.

The touchmap backs this up.

His first touches are central, then the next few are all to the right, and then there's one deep in our half on the left. Then he went off.

I can't paste this in as it's like an info graphic that doesn't copy.

 

[Toast]

Oh no.
Stephen Warnock has lost a bit of respect for Duncan Ferguson over the sub yesterday he's just said on Sky.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Truth is apart from getting tired he didn't do much wrong. That's a issue Dunc should've dealt with behind the scenes instead of making a example out of him by pulling him off with 5 mins to go for Niasse and probably putting a end to his career at Everton. Heard some saying his performance was 'disgraceful'. give over if he finished the game people wouldn't be banging on about how bad he was, they would probably be saying he deserves more game time and should play on Wednesday. I'll tell you who was bad for the majority of that game, Iwobi.

Him being off or on didn’t really much difference as far as I’m concerned. This was more about Ferguson showing he is “the boss” for me, and for that reason is a misjudgement on his part.

It raised his profile as a manager, so from his perspective it is a job well done. Just not sure it will benefit the team.

 

[BlueToff]

Oh no.
Stephen Warnock has lost a bit of respect for Duncan Ferguson over the sub yesterday he's just said on Sky.

 

[SMB]

Oh no.
Stephen Warnock has lost a bit of respect for Duncan Ferguson over the sub yesterday he's just said on Sky.

hahaha. Poor Duncan

 

[Gilbert..]

Him being off or on didn’t really much difference as far as I’m concerned. This was more about Ferguson showing he is “the boss” for me, and for that reason is a misjudgement on his part.

It raised his profile as a manager, so from his perspective it is a job well done. Just not sure it will benefit the team.

Do you seriously think that. That at that exact moment he chose a "im going to show whos boss" thing.
It couldnt just be, hes not doing what i asked. I want something from this game. Hes coming off.

 

[LinekersLegs]

So, Kean had 9 touches in total (all over the pitch). He had 5 duels (won none - not good), and conceded three fouls.

Niasse had three touches (according to this data), conceded two fouls, and won 1 of his 2 duels.

Passing wise, Kean attempted 3, made 1 successful pass. Niasse made 1 successful pass, and that was the only one he attempted.

That's the stats I have.

Again, I'm not saying Kean played massively well. I just don't see what damage he was doing that meant he couldn't play four minutes for the sake of what we got from Niasse.

And the effort thing - well the stats on distances/speed/sprints say the effort was there. That shouldn't have resulted in him looking like he'd run half a marathon, but still, it was there, and I watched the game and thought the same thing. At no point was I thinking 'he's not put the effort in' and I'd argue that the people who are saying that are only doing so because he got taken off.

If he hadn't have been, it'd have been 'sloppy, but worked for the team' or whatever.

Thanks for the data.

As I’ve said earlier in the thread in real time the 3 players I thought were most vulnerable of doing something that would make us concede another goal were Kean, Iwobi and Pickford. I’d probably have subbed Iwobi but Dunc seemed to have been shouting at Kean a few times beforehand presumably without getting whatever message he wanted conveyed so perhaps that frustration played a part.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Do you seriously think that. That at that exact moment he chose a "im going to show whos boss" thing.
It couldnt just be, hes not doing what i asked. I want something from this game. Hes coming off.

You are right, I might be misreading Duncan’s motives based on their after effects. I just giving my take on it.

Having said that, if it was not an opportunistic move to draw a line and the sand and make a power play then it may be worse. For it would possibly show he cannot contain his emotions in the moment, and is prone to rash decisions.

Either could be issues for him going forward as a manager. Let’s not forget, one of the benefits of coming through the leagues is it allows you to make mistakes out of the public eye.

 

[Little Ralphy]

So, Kean had 9 touches in total (all over the pitch). He had 5 duels (won none - not good), and conceded three fouls.

Niasse had three touches (according to this data), conceded two fouls, and won 1 of his 2 duels.

Passing wise, Kean attempted 3, made 1 successful pass. Niasse made 1 successful pass, and that was the only one he attempted.

That's the stats I have.

Again, I'm not saying Kean played massively well. I just don't see what damage he was doing that meant he couldn't play four minutes for the sake of what we got from Niasse.

And the effort thing - well the stats on distances/speed/sprints say the effort was there. That shouldn't have resulted in him looking like he'd run half a marathon, but still, it was there, and I watched the game and thought the same thing. At no point was I thinking 'he's not put the effort in' and I'd argue that the people who are saying that are only doing so because he got taken off.

If he hadn't have been, it'd have been 'sloppy, but worked for the team' or whatever.

So even by those stats there is nothing positive from kean. He mis-controlled it 3 times it says. What did he offer exactly? As a sub when the team is under the cosh and he's got fresh legs, he'd have been expected to hold the ball up and close down the Utd players. I remember watching it thinking wtf is he doing, he's not offered anything to the team. As a player I'd have had a go at him cos everyone else was working hard and despite what you say he wasn't. He could do sprints up and down the line taking no interest in the game and you'd be telling us how he performed more sprints than anyone else. He offered nothing in the time he was on.

I suspect there has been some sort of issue with Kean because SIlva didn't really play him either, so perhaps Ferguson felt taking him off was the best way to try and deal with the situation. Pretty much every other player has given everything for Ferguson in his two games.

 

[Bluerover]

Oh no.
Stephen Warnock has lost a bit of respect for Duncan Ferguson over the sub yesterday he's just said on Sky.

That would be the RS Warnock who was at 11 different league clubs I take it??

He would know lots about passion and effort for a football club.

 

[efcste97]

Him being off or on didn’t really much difference as far as I’m concerned. This was more about Ferguson showing he is “the boss” for me, and for that reason is a misjudgement on his part.

It raised his profile as a manager, so from his perspective it is a job well done. Just not sure it will benefit the team.

It has probably put the nail in the coffin for a loan/permanent move for Kean in January. Unless someone like Ancelotti comes in and gives him playing time.

 

[consho]

So tell me please where does he play him?