Current Affairs Ukraine

[LinekersLegs]

But they can go offroading to Kiev though, tanks and all aren't exactly road vehicles lol

See, this is what strikes me as weird when people were surprised.

Similarly to how it happened in Crimea - forces were amassed way before and everyone just went "nah it's okay, they're saying it's training, Putin wouldn't lie!".

?

There is some doubt about that, both because of the condition of Russian equipment and reports that Ukraine emptied a reservoir to make the mud particularly bad

 

[Davideeyore]

I mean we've been here before. Russia are absolutely going to use chlorine bombs. Will Biden follow through where Obama didnt?

Surely, to god, in this century in 2022, that this danger, this likely threat, should be stopped, before they do use chemical weapons? Are we going to stand by and watch thousands if not hundreds of thousands be killed, before we say enough is enough? Stop talking and take direct action.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[DualityNSNO]

There is some doubt about that, both because of the condition of Russian equipment and reports that Ukraine emptied a reservoir to make the mud particularly bad

Well I'm glad I am very wrong then.

Lucky for Ukraine that the weather is horrible currently, also...

 

[roydo]

Surely, to god, in this century in 2022, that this danger, this likely threat, should be stopped, before they do use chemical weapons? Are we going to stand by and watch thousands if not hundreds of thousands be killed, before we say enough is enough? Stop talking and take direct action.

Thats what the lunatic wants the west to do.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Surely, to god, in this century in 2022, that this danger, this likely threat, should be stopped, before they do use chemical weapons? Are we going to stand by and watch thousands if not hundreds of thousands be killed, before we say enough is enough? Stop talking and take direct action.

It's what Putin wants before the actual endgame of destroying everything though. So no, sadly, the west can't/shouldn't right now.

 

[PhilM]

Well I'm glad I am very wrong then.

Lucky for Ukraine that the weather is horrible currently, also...

From a a Russian perspective, an optimistic estimate is early April for the ground to be suitable although could easily be later.

 

[Davideeyore]

It's what Putin wants before the actual endgame of destroying everything though. So no, sadly, the west can't/shouldn't right now.

Yes. But they must not let this get "out of hand" any more than it is.

It's provocation. Biden says if they go in it is WW3. I'm afraid it's only a matter of time, if Russia is not stopped.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Yes. But they must not let this get "out of hand" any more than it is.

It's provocation. Biden says if they go in it is WW3. I'm afraid it's only a matter of time, if Russia is not stopped.

Yeah but no one wants to provoke the Russians.

The tactic is clearly to deny that this is a "war" and instead call it a mission or liberation or whatever the hell, just so that as soon as *anyone* strikes back they can go "THEY ATTACKED US" and go utterly ham. No one wants the second part I believe...

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Yes. But they must not let this get "out of hand" any more than it is.

It's provocation. Biden says if they go in it is WW3. I'm afraid it's only a matter of time, if Russia is not stopped.

From a strategic perspective its in hand. A localised conflict that's currently contained.

That's not to say its right

 

[PeregrineT]

Yes. But they must not let this get "out of hand" any more than it is.

It's provocation. Biden says if they go in it is WW3. I'm afraid it's only a matter of time, if Russia is not stopped.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that even if other powers decide to go in and try and stop Russia, its probably wise to wait. If you are really going to put yourself at risk of Russia launching whatever they have, though you hope you have developed the defense systems and capabilities to stop it you still want to prepare. Give yourself time to check all of your systems, move them in place, develop a plan and strategy, and then you have a much greater chance of success.

Im not saying they would entertain it, but if you did you would not want to just jump in right away, youd want time to get everyone to full readiness while Russia weakens and Putin's grip fades.

 

[Wizard]

Surely, to god, in this century in 2022, that this danger, this likely threat, should be stopped, before they do use chemical weapons? Are we going to stand by and watch thousands if not hundreds of thousands be killed, before we say enough is enough? Stop talking and take direct action.

Well it’s basically the trolley problem. Do you risk millions of lives to save hundreds of thousands? Call his bluff and stop Putin going further then great. If he’s not bluffing and levels a city or two which opens up a potential nuclear war. These are not decisions I would want to be making and hope that there can be some sort of solution before we have to come to that choice.

 

[Davideeyore]

Yeah but no one wants to provoke the Russians.

The tactic is clearly to deny that this is a "war" and instead call it a mission or liberation or whatever the hell, just so that as soon as *anyone* strikes back they can go "THEY ATTACKED US" and go utterly ham. No one wants the second part I believe...

Of course we don't want a nuclear war..... But the whole world well apart from a few that are in league with Russia, know that Russia is the aggressor here. They know it is an unprovoked and illegal war on Ukraine. They know they are killing civillians and systematically destroying Ukraine. Forcing millions to leave. Creating a humanitarian crisis/disaster. Yet, we don't want to get too involved because of.. Ukraine are not NATO. Russia are NOT playing by the book. Why don't NATO accept Ukraine and deal with Russia in an instant?

Probably because we might be nuked in an instant. Terrible world.

 

[roydo]

Yes. But they must not let this get "out of hand" any more than it is.

It's provocation. Biden says if they go in it is WW3. I'm afraid it's only a matter of time, if Russia is not stopped.

In the deadly dull but deadly important world of international gilt trading, (government borrowing), it is believed that Russia will default on their next coupon payment. In other words, they will default on their very large international credit card minimum payment.

That will, at a swipe, close their access to future borrowing. Immediately.

Now that will be a pain for holders of said gilts, but thats corporate life. But it also means that Russia will be paying for this war, (and everything else), in cash/selling their gold reserves, assuming they still have some.

That hurts more than a bomb or missile. Cos it takes more time to rebuild an international credit rating than a shopping centre.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Of course we don't want a nuclear war..... But the whole world well apart from a few that are in league with Russia, know that Russia is the aggressor here. They know it is an unprovoked and illegal war on Ukraine. They know they are killing civillians and systematically destroying Ukraine. Forcing millions to leave. Creating a humanitarian crisis/disaster. Yet, we don't want to get too involved because of.. Ukraine are not NATO. Russia are NOT playing by the book. Why don't NATO accept Ukraine and deal with Russia in an instant?

Probably because we might be nuked in an instant. Terrible world.

Yeah, between Scylla and Charybdis with this one.

There are no right answers with how to deal with Russia, and all answers in general end badly anyway...