Current Affairs Ukraine

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Zatara said:
I think the sensible thing to do would be to let Russia take Donbass. Then Putin has a win and i doubt he tries this again.
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That's going to be a tough sell for Zelenskyy to his people right now. We don't much observe mid-1800s European-style wars for limited territorial objectives these days. The present international order frowns on that sort of thing, and it's hard for a democratically-elected leader to whipsaw a populace from driving them into a war frenzy into coldly calculating that territorial concessions are in their best interest.

Zelenskyy would have to start losing major cities before he could even think about getting away with putting Donbas on the table to get the Russians out, given that his propaganda so far is aimed at convincing his citizens that they're winning.
 


and some say we shouldn't pressure him bcs he is a dictator, so freakin what? irrelevant TODAY IN THIS HOUR. let's deal with the invading dictator first.
 
Martin Alvito said:
That's going to be a tough sell for Zelenskyy to his people right now. We don't much observe mid-1800s European-style wars for limited territorial objectives these days. The present international order frowns on that sort of thing, and it's hard for a democratically-elected leader to whipsaw a populace from driving them into a war frenzy into coldly calculating that territorial concessions are in their best interest.

Zelenskyy would have to start losing major cities before he could even think about getting away with putting Donbas on the table to get the Russians out, given that his propaganda so far is aimed at convincing his citizens that they're winning.
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Yeah I think that’s likely. Additionally Donbas alone wouldn’t be enough for Putin.
 
[Deleted Member] said:


and some say we shouldn't pressure him bcs he is a dictator, so freakin what? irrelevant TODAY IN THIS HOUR. let's deal with the invading dictator first.
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Turkey closed the Bosphorus, nodded to swift and have supplied Ukraine drones. While it obviously isn’t that simple, I think they’re less a partner at the moment.
 
cooperman said:
Some brilliant contributions in this thread from very well informed posters this morning. Given me a great deal to think about.
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Agreed, there have been several illuminating and thought provoking contributions which reflect well on GOT. As someone who knows little about modern Russia and even less about Ukraine I've not contributed to it but it has become essential reading for me.
Kev The Rat said:
The danger is we apply our own vision of what society is to Russia, and in doing so, completely misunderstand it.
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Martin Alvito said:
This is a point which is missed time and again, especially by the Western media who bring their own biases to the table when providing coverage.
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Viewing conflicts and societies in other parts of the world through western eyes has led to many misunderstandings and misjudgements.
 
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