Current Affairs Ukraine

[davids]

They paid us handsomely with their natural resources.

They are welcome.

Don't forget the lives of the half a million plus women and children.

 

[Goat]

Don't forget the lives of the half a million plus women and children.

This is the Ukraine thread David, feel free to start an Iraq war discussion tho, by all means.

 

[davids]

This is the Ukraine thread David, feel free to start an Iraq war discussion tho, by all means.

And here's me thinking you'd just posted about the "reshaping of Iraq".

 

[malfosse]

Yup and it's what all great powers through history have done when they have felt threatened externally. So was very predictable what would happen

I take it then you would be in favour of eastern European and Baltic nations invading Russia? Just going from your previous answer.

 

[Goat]

And here's me thinking you'd just posted about the "reshaping of Iraq".

I didnt mention Iraq David.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

If someone was badgering me to condemn Israel I'd not do so purely because of that, similarly if people where trumpeting on about how great Israel acts, I'd be the first to say what they've done mate.

But you didn't condemn it even before you were "badgered."

The silence was deafening in fact.

I mean the silence between the endless pro-Putin posts obviously.

 

[peteblue]

Russia is a terrorist state.

Indeed it is. And it is showing itself up to the rest of the world. Putin is destroying any vestiges of Russia being seen as a global power, it‘s having its arse kicked by Ukraine and it’s hurting. Yes they have nuclear weapons, but so does lots of countries and it only needs one for Moscow to disappear forever and they know this. They have lost their ‘fear factor’, the thought of Russian tanks rolling over Europe is now laughable. Putin has done more damage to Russia‘s reputation and prestige than the West could ever do. Ukraine will win, Putin will die and unfortunately so will thousands of his troops…but this was his choice…..

 

[ramacca]

Some wonderful whataboutery from these 2 fine Comrades.

благодарю вас

And the Syrians.

And the Libyans.

Come to think of it NATO and the countries that make up that organisation have been responsible for mayhem since it's inception and has not brought peace and human development in the world but misery, death and destruction. The Global majority, the 87% that refuse to sanction Russia, know what NATO's game is.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[peteblue]

The idiots didn’t even manage to blow it up……

 

[davids]

I understand entirely your suspicion that the US profits from warfare, both economically via sales of weapons and also in a variety of foreign policy / geopolitical influence ways. I'd say you're almost certainly correct. I'd go further and say several other western countries are also profiting in some or all of those ways too, and I suspect you might agree.

I don't think Biden gets to decide if Zelensky is allowed to agree to a ceasefire or not. I accept that you have suspicions in that area, but until a rational ceasefire is on the table (and it never has been thus far - ceding Crimea, Donbass and all points between as a pre-condition is obviously unacceptable and IF the Kremlin made such an offer it was clearly one designed to be refused so that Putin could then attempt to paint Zelensky as somehow complicit in the ongoing assaults upon his own civilian population), it's completely academic.

If Zelensky were to refuse a ceasefire for no apparent reason, when Putin offered to withdraw all his troops from Ukraine and return control of Crimea, Donbass and everywhere else to Ukraine then yes, I'd ask questions too. But that hasn't happened.

No-one has suggested that being suspicious of US motives, or even being openly critical of US motives, makes you Pro-Russia. The suggestion is that your steadfast refusal to ever utter a single word of criticism of Putin, when his troops have raped and murdered THOUSANDS of non-combatants, makes you pro-Russia.

You are straw-manning like an all-pro here, my darling vatnik boy.

Now man up and address the following:

Thought that rang a bell...
During this period, the Inquisition would collect accusations. If two witnesses under oath accused someone of heresy, the accused person would be summoned to appear. Opinions, prejudices, rumors, and gossip were all accepted as evidence. The accused was never told the names of the accusers, nor even the exact charges.

Inquisitors examined the accused in secret. Anyone who refused to confess immediately was assumed to be guilty. Inquisitors were trained only in religion, and they would try to trap the accused with religious questions. For example, an inquisitor might ask, "Do you believe what the holy church believes?"

"I am a faithful Christian," the fearful suspect might reply.

"So!" the inquisitor might shout. "We already know you believe in heresies! You're saying your beliefs are the true Christianity and the church is false!"

No lawyers were allowed, because it was considered heresy to defend a heretic. The only possible escape was to recant as quickly as possible and name the names of other heretics.?

 

[bluestevon]

Some wonderful whataboutery from these 2 fine Comrades.

благодарю вас

Not sure you actually know how to use that phrase mate.

 

[cooperman]

Indeed it is. And it is showing itself up to the rest of the world. Putin is destroying any vestiges of Russia being seen as a global power, it‘s having its arse kicked by Ukraine and it’s hurting. Yes they have nuclear weapons, but so does lots of countries and it only needs one for Moscow to disappear forever and they know this. They have lost their ‘fear factor’, the thought of Russian tanks rolling over Europe is now laughable. Putin has done more damage to Russia‘s reputation and prestige than the West could ever do. Ukraine will win, Putin will die and unfortunately so will thousands of his troops…but this was his choice…..

I really admire your optimism on this. Hopefully you're right.

Things are going to get worse before they get better. There's three ways I think this could play out

1. This conflict becomes a stalemate... Like the Korean war. Ukraine push back but we get to a point where both sides dig in and effectively stay there long term. Things fizzle out... Possibly redrawing the territorial lines many years down the line

2. Putin is internally toppled. Unlikely really but as this drags on you never know. A more moderate leader steps in and brings Russia back to the international community.

3. Nuclear escalate to de-escalate strategy from Putin. Small chance but if backed into a corner with no other options, it's a chance he might take. Another one of these lorry attacks... You just don't know. Can't see all out nuclear exchange, but perhaps a limited number and an offer of settlement. Huge gamble on many levels though. NATO would have to respond strongly, or risk Russia taking over much of the old USSR.

I still think the first option is where this will be going, with a small chance of the third... I know on here we have some very knowledgeable members and I'm happy to be convinced otherwise.

 

[Goat]

And the Syrians.

And the Libyans.

Come to think of it NATO and the countries that make up that organisation have been responsible for mayhem since it's inception and has not brought peace and human development in the world but misery, death and destruction. The Global majority, the 87% that refuse to sanction Russia, know what NATO's game is.

You mean the 87% that dont matter.

 

[bluestevon]

I take it then you would be in favour of eastern European and Baltic nations invading Russia? Just going from your previous answer.

Well historically when countries to the west saw Russia as weaker and a threat they did invade them mate.

Without a nuclear deterrent NATO would have tried years ago.