Current Affairs Ukraine

[bluestevon]

No, it's this line:


that concerned me in context of others' commentary that Stalin/Beria needed complicit Russians in order to operate.

They needed complicit Russians, Ukranians, Georgians, and others from the Soviet sphere in reality mate.

Owing your sins would be the acceptance of that, saying 'it was the Russians who did it' is most certainly not owning sins is it?

 

[Martin Alvito]

I may not have alluded to it correctly, but junior cadets have the enthusiasm and optimism of youth; look at the Hitler-Jugend as what can be achieved.

So I appreciate that point. Yet, this is a more complicated issue as at first Russian officers are in general not effective as many of their western counterparts.

There's also the huge element of the inexperience and inefficiencies of NCO cadre. When officers leave Sandhurst, Cranwell or Dartmouth, they get support.

The senior NCOs (Sgts, Colour/Staff Sgts and WOs, and even Cpls.) can and do provide advice based on many, many years of experience and training.

The notorious lack of leadership within the Russian army, with NCOs often having a mere few years of experience, if that, will mean it'll be the blind leading the blind.

Discipline will be lacking, experience may be non-existent, and this may result in an unwillingness to fight. Can you see these units standing and holding the line?

All of these points are also well-taken. All I was saying was that I wouldn't discount the capabilities of more senior cadets, but that shipping specialist ones like engineers to the front lines smacks of desperation, as you say. You want experience there.

I would never compare the firsties generally at the time to the Hitler Youth. They were strikingly well-grounded. Even the poor plebe a couple of cows had me get on my wall was smart enough to both see through the ruse and contain open laughter. The problem with the firsties in the leadership structure was that the comparison to Hitler Youth was startlingly accurate.

I think there is general agreement that Russia's lack of a professional NCO knowledge base is, was and will be their single greatest problem in their military. There is no substitute for practical problem-solving experience on the front lines of a conflict.

 

[PhilM]

The caveat is that this cannot be confirmed, but if true it could represent the conditions that many of the soldiers may be facing. It may be a tough read for some.

“its a slaughter”

3:32pm, September 30th, San Francisco1:32am, October 1st, Eastern Ukraine Moved north. its a slaughter cut them off west of kreminna. got to go. Stay safe. Lyman totally cut off? I think so, engadg…

ukrainevolunteer297689472.wordpress.com

 

[Martin Alvito]

Owning the sins of the past is a good one though, it's true. Can't post anymore about how both sides don't do that or I'll get the usual crew spouting about whatsboutism.

There's a right way and a wrong way to advance that claim. I think that the problem you've been running into is that there is significant hostility to advancing that claim without admitting the sins of your own, and for cause. It's a problem over here with our politics.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Imagine if England and Scotland had separate armed forces and one day Truss made an announcement that Scotland was full of Nazis and we were going to liberate Dumfries.

Then we just cross the border, raping and killing the Dunfries citizens and dropping bombs on them because it is, despite what the people who live and vote there think, in fact part of England and we have every right to do that.

I kinda feel a normal English person would be horrified in that situation.

The apologists for Putin in this thread actually make me want to vomit. I think it's almost as bad to sit removed from the actual conflict, saying how the deaths are awful and peace must prevail while slyly angling post after post to favour Russia as it is to be behind a rifle. It's doing Putin's work without getting their hands dirty.

Happy to name names too.

@bluestevon
@davids

I'm sure you don't really care but I think you've lost a lot of respect throughout this forum with nationalistic agendas seemingly coming before basic decency and humanity.

 

[PhilM]

I think there is general agreement that Russia's lack of a professional NCO knowledge base is, was and will be their single greatest problem in their military. There is no substitute for practical problem-solving experience on the front lines of a conflict.

This, all day. In the 90s, they regularly had Sgts. within many infantry units (it's different with specialised roles) who had less experience than our L/Cpls.

They were often conscripts with a bit of prowess (or more authoritative) who were given a little push-up the ladder within the respective units. Rinse and repeat.

I don't know if it's still the case, but with the scale of their mobilisation and the attrition rate faced by their front line units I suspect it may be the same.

 

[Martin Alvito]

This, all day. In the 90s, they regularly had Sgts. within many infantry units (it's different with specialised roles) who had less experience than our L/Cpls.

They were often conscripts with a bit of prowess (or more authoritative) who were given a little push-up the ladder within the respective units. Rinse and repeat.

I don't know if it's still the case, but with the scale of their mobilisation and the attrition rate faced by their front line units I suspect it may be the same.

I can only like this one once, which is at the heart of the argument for bringing rep back.

AFAIK nothing has changed.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Owning the sins of the past is a good one though, it's true. Can't post anymore about how both sides don't do that or I'll get the usual crew spouting about whatsboutism.

Instead I'll just wonder how a country wishing to be both part of the EU and NATO has whitewashed its own history and now has certain reprehensible individuals idolized as national icons

Short answer to the second paragraph: doesn't every country do that in its educational system below the graduate levels? It's a problem.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[davids]

Imagine if England and Scotland had separate armed forces and one day Truss made an announcement that Scotland was full of Nazis and we were going to liberate Dumfries.

Then we just cross the border, raping and killing the Dunfries citizens and dropping bombs on them because it is, despite what the people who live and vote there think, in fact part of England and we have every right to do that.

I kinda feel a normal English person would be horrified in that situation.

The apologists for Putin in this thread actually make me want to vomit. I think it's almost as bad to sit removed from the actual conflict, saying how the deaths are awful and peace must prevail while slyly angling post after post to favour Russia as it is to be behind a rifle. It's doing Putin's work without getting their hands dirty.

Happy to name names too.

@bluestevon
@davids

I'm sure you don't really care but I think you've lost a lot of respect throughout this forum with nationalistic agendas seemingly coming before basic decency and humanity.

Show one post that I've supported Putin. My viewpoint that the US have stoked this for financial and political gain is not the same thing. But I wouldn't expect you to want to understand that. No doubt Putin is mentally unbalanced but then you could level that against many heads of state. Carry on with your us v them agenda,all the way to a European nuclear desert.
" Nationalistic agenda"? I'm an Irish passport holder.?

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Show one post that I've supported Putin. My viewpoint that the US have stoked this for financial and political gain is not the same thing. But I wouldn't expect you to want to understand that. No doubt Putin is mentally unbalanced but then you could level that against many heads of state. Carry on with your us v them agenda,all the way to a European nuclear desert.

@MaupsGoat already took you to school, I'm not wasting my time trawling back through your twaddle on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[davids]

@MaupsGoat already took you to school, I'm not wasting my time trawling back through your twaddle on a Saturday afternoon.

Funny I can't find any schooling just some childlike comments about him being more experienced on forums... think I'm still waiting for his promised vaulting.I'm old enough to be his Father ( if not Grandfather).?

 

[bluestevon]

Imagine if England and Scotland had separate armed forces and one day Truss made an announcement that Scotland was full of Nazis and we were going to liberate Dumfries.

Then we just cross the border, raping and killing the Dunfries citizens and dropping bombs on them because it is, despite what the people who live and vote there think, in fact part of England and we have every right to do that.

I kinda feel a normal English person would be horrified in that situation.

The apologists for Putin in this thread actually make me want to vomit. I think it's almost as bad to sit removed from the actual conflict, saying how the deaths are awful and peace must prevail while slyly angling post after post to favour Russia as it is to be behind a rifle. It's doing Putin's work without getting their hands dirty.

Happy to name names too.

@bluestevon
@davids

I'm sure you don't really care but I think you've lost a lot of respect throughout this forum with nationalistic agendas seemingly coming before basic decency and humanity.

Google Image Result for https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5eab774db179c759bf57bf442124f20d-lq

Just for clarity this us the Donbass Alley of Angles - which remembers all the children killed in the area from 14-22 by Ukranians shelling civilian targets in the seperatist areas.

I'd rather have my own self respect than the respect off other people unearned by just posting funny stuff in the footy threads mate.

Accuse me of being pro war all you f*cking well want, I'm the polar opposite in fact. Unlike a lot here who you regular agree with the posts of.

Here's the thing I could go through your posts or others if I wanted trying to find any sympathy for the people from 14-22 being killed - right now I can assure you I'd find none to little.

Now whose being disingenuous truthfully?


Again I'll state It clearly, innocent people bring killed in a conflict is horrific. Whatever race, colour, religion or whose side they are on.

 

[Goat]

Funny I can't find any schooling just some childlike comments about him being more experienced on forums... think I'm still waiting for his promised vaulting.I'm old enough to be his Father ( if not Grandfather).?

I never said I would vault you, I just said I would point out your Pro-Putin comments, I honestly got bored when every post you made was Pro-Putin.