Current Affairs Ukraine

[Bohemian Toffee]

Do you think that's a fairly mainstream view, or fairly niche?

I do feel like we may be very close to seismic changes in the world we know. A lot of things feel very fragile. Old unions, political certainties, people's incomes and standard of living. Lots of resentments and ill feelings doing the rounds, usually ends up with an outlet. Often not a good one.

Without checking I can tell you these will be people who are fairly old - close to if not past retirement age - hailing from more rural communities who did well or appreciated the sense of security that communism gave them. The speakers will likely be younger, political opportunists trying for a populist anti-EU or anti globalist agenda.

Most Czechs don't take the security benefits and increase in living conditions provided by the EU lightly and there doesn't seem to be much of an appetite for debating a Czech departure from either the EU or NATO.

But, we live in polarising times and Russia's ability to shape online debate and sponsor sidelined parties or individuals into positions of prominence is always there. My instinct is that the first Czech reaction against globalisation will come against poorly trained, low income migrant labour or along traditional ethnic lines before the more abstract political organisations or corporations that should be held to account.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Meanwhile, 70,000 attended a protest rally in Prague asking for the government to resign and put the Czech Republic first, by *checks notes - forging closer links to Russia.

Sound.

Aye, Putins network across Europe will be 100% stoking unrest.



And in Germany



Being pushed by far right scrotes like Griffin and communists

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Without checking I can tell you these will be people who are fairly old - close to if not past retirement age - hailing from more rural communities who did well or appreciated the sense of security that communism gave them. The speakers will likely be younger, political opportunists trying for a populist anti-EU or anti globalist agenda.

Most Czechs don't take the security benefits and increase in living conditions provided by the EU lightly and there doesn't seem to be much of an appetite for debating a Czech departure from either the EU or NATO.

But, we live in polarising times and Russia's ability to shape online debate and sponsor sidelined parties or individuals into positions of prominence is always there. My instinct is that the first Czech reaction against globalisation will come against poorly trained, low income migrant labour or along traditional ethnic lines before the more abstract political organisations or corporations that should be held to account.

Czech far right and far left rally to protest against energy crisis

Czech extremists rallied in Prague's city centre on Saturday, using the ongoing energy crisis to criticise the country's centre-right ...

www.intellinews.com

 

[bluestevon]

Without checking I can tell you these will be people who are fairly old - close to if not past retirement age - hailing from more rural communities who did well or appreciated the sense of security that communism gave them. The speakers will likely be younger, political opportunists trying for a populist anti-EU or anti globalist agenda.

Most Czechs don't take the security benefits and increase in living conditions provided by the EU lightly and there doesn't seem to be much of an appetite for debating a Czech departure from either the EU or NATO.

But, we live in polarising times and Russia's ability to shape online debate and sponsor sidelined parties or individuals into positions of prominence is always there. My instinct is that the first Czech reaction against globalisation will come against poorly trained, low income migrant labour or along traditional ethnic lines before the more abstract political organisations or corporations that should be held to account.

Thing is the protests at least from what I'm seeing are aimed at the government and various policies, rising inflation etc and to the aid given militarily and economically to Ukraine tied up no doubt to you having received 4-500k of them. And seems to be look to problems at home before helping abroad

The government seem to be the one portraying it as a pro Russian demonstration. To me it just looks like an anti Czech government demmo, but it's easier to dismiss genuine concerns if you portray it as pro Russian in the current climate

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Without checking I can tell you these will be people who are fairly old - close to if not past retirement age - hailing from more rural communities who did well or appreciated the sense of security that communism gave them. The speakers will likely be younger, political opportunists trying for a populist anti-EU or anti globalist agenda.

Most Czechs don't take the security benefits and increase in living conditions provided by the EU lightly and there doesn't seem to be much of an appetite for debating a Czech departure from either the EU or NATO.

But, we live in polarising times and Russia's ability to shape online debate and sponsor sidelined parties or individuals into positions of prominence is always there. My instinct is that the first Czech reaction against globalisation will come against poorly trained, low income migrant labour or along traditional ethnic lines before the more abstract political organisations or corporations that should be held to account.

Yeah, fair point on the older generations. Friends and family from the old communist bloc countries note the difference. The collapse of communism, whilst not totally unwelcome, did remove a lot of life's certainty in some ways.

Mate's wife spent a year in Russia as part of her degree 20 years ago (how times chang, was saying the other day how people were left struggling overnight when it all collapsed there.

 

[Bohemian Toffee]

Thing is the protests at least from what I'm seeing are aimed at the government and various policies, rising inflation etc and to the aid given militarily and economically to Ukraine tied up no doubt to you having received 4-500k of them. And seems to be look to problems at home before helping abroad

The government seem to be the one portraying it as a pro Russian demonstration. To me it just looks like an anti Czech government demmo, but it's easier to dismiss genuine concerns if you portray it as pro Russian in the current climate

Yeah, the point that you might be missing is that there are plenty of sticks to hit the government with, rising energy prices being one of the easiest.

But, the crucial context is the next point the protestors make is that we need to closer align to Russia to secure our energy supplies or ditch the EU because of their sanctions triggering the energy crisis. That's a step that most people here don't make.

 

[bluestevon]

Yeah, fair point on the older generations. Friends and family from the old communist bloc countries note the difference. The collapse of communism, whilst not totally unwelcome, did remove a lot of life's certainty in some ways.

Mate's wife spent a year in Russia as part of her degree 20 years ago (how times chang, was saying the other day how people were left struggling overnight when it all collapsed there.

Just on a purely informing point, Russia was hit first by the collapse of communism which removed a lot if certainties, but what happened next was far worse, basically it got plundered (with the help primarily of the States) and was left in ruins almost.

An example I can give from just my own family, my mother-in-law had to quit work at the hospital as she wasn't paid anything for over 6 months. She then went from being a doctor to working in a factory - alongside her husband, and soon after the factories started to saying not in wages but in barter, and instead of money you'd be given products to take home and then need to try find others you could trade with for things you needed to live.

They still have 5/6 vacuum cleaners from those days they where given as their wage.

That period lasted in great part from 91/92 until Yeltsin finally was removed. Included in that where various other events which raped the resources and future of the Russian people. Yeltsin when he won the last election - the US boasted publicly how they'd stolen the election for him (even had that on the front cover of the NYT)

If you ask the vast majority of post 30 year olds in Russia why they supported Putin, there's your answer. That's literally what he took over.

 

[Bohemian Toffee]

Just on a purely informing point, Russia was hit first by the collapse of communism which removed a lot if certainties, but what happened next was far worse, basically it got plundered (with the help primarily of the States) and was left in ruins almost.

An example I can give from just my own family, my mother-in-law had to quit work at the hospital as she wasn't paid anything for over 6 months. She then went from being a doctor to working in a factory - alongside her husband, and soon after the factories started to saying not in wages but in barter, and instead of money you'd be given products to take home and then need to try find others you could trade with for things you needed to live.

They still have 5/6 vacuum cleaners from those days they where given as their wage.

That period lasted in great part from 91/92 until Yeltsin finally was removed. Included in that where various other events which raped the resources and future of the Russian people. Yeltsin when he won the last election - the US boasted publicly how they'd stolen the election for him (even had that on the front cover of the NYT)

If you ask the vast majority of post 30 year olds in Russia why they supported Putin, there's your answer. That's literally what he took over.

On a tiny point of order, was it not Time magazine rather than the NYT that ran the Yeltsin cover?

 

[bluestevon]

Yeah, the point that you might be missing is that there are plenty of sticks to hit the government with, rising energy prices being one of the easiest.

But, the crucial context is the next point the protestors make is that we need to closer align to Russia to secure our energy supplies or ditch the EU because of their sanctions triggering the energy crisis. That's a step that most people here don't make.

That's the thing about being any part of a block though, in that you effectively become one policy across the board.

Ditching the EU for closer economic ties to Russia would currently be suicide, 10 months ago closer economic ties to Russia where what the main European countries where all moving towards.

 

[bluestevon]

On a tiny point of order, was it not Time magazine rather than the NYT that ran the Yeltsin cover?

Yup mate it was, cheers for the correction

 

[Bohemian Toffee]

Yup mate it was, cheers for the correction

No worries, I try to teach my students some geopolitics which includes a section on Russia, her historical vulnerability to European invasion, lack of natural frontiers (again on the European side) and I include the Time magazine cover as part of the context for continued anti-American and pro-Putin feeling.

From other posts of yours I understand you hold resident status there, I hope for all our sakes this conflict can find a resolution which allays Russian concerns and offers us all some stability. All the best.

 

[bluestevon]

No worries, I try to teach my students some geopolitics which includes a section on Russia, her historical vulnerability to European invasion, lack of natural frontiers (again on the European side) and I include the Time magazine cover as part of the context for continued anti-American and pro-Putin feeling.

From other posts of yours I understand you hold resident status there, I hope for all our sakes this conflict can find a resolution which allays Russian concerns and offers us all some stability. All the best.

As a teacher anything that broadens a students ability to look at the broader picture and history surrounding any issue is a great thing mate, so credit on that score.

Thanks for the words, yeah resident now for closing on ten years and likely for good as I love the country and people (not talking about governance).

Just want it diplomatically resolved soon and to stop first the deaths and second the inflexible postures on both sides which frankly will never see this resolved otherwise, if both parties concerns aren't acknowledged though that's hard to see happening sadly

 

[Bohemian Toffee]

As a teacher anything that broadens a students ability to look at the broader picture and history surrounding any issue is a great thing mate, so credit on that score.

Thanks for the words, yeah resident now for closing on ten years and likely for good as I love the country and people (not talking about governance).

Just want it diplomatically resolved soon and to stop first the deaths and second the inflexible postures on both sides which frankly will never see this resolved otherwise, if both parties concerns aren't acknowledged though that's hard to see happening sadly

Amen to that brother, amen to that.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Yeah, fair point on the older generations. Friends and family from the old communist bloc countries note the difference. The collapse of communism, whilst not totally unwelcome, did remove a lot of life's certainty in some ways.

Mate's wife spent a year in Russia as part of her degree 20 years ago (how times chang, was saying the other day how people were left struggling overnight when it all collapsed there.

A lot of fondness for communism remains in the older generation in Slovenia too, whether that's tied up a lot with nostalgia as I expect I don't know for sure.

People in the UK seem to hark back to the good old days in Blighty too, seemingly brushing rationing etc under the carpet. Some things may have changed but for most people quality of life has never been better. In recent times anyway, the current situation with cost of living is pushing this down which is troubling to say the least.

I see there are renewed calls for Russia to be labelled a terrorist state. It met that criteria (as laid out in today's Guardian) some time ago I believe.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

A lot of fondness for communism remains in the older generation in Slovenia too, whether that's tied up a lot with nostalgia as I expect I don't know for sure.

People in the UK seem to hark back to the good old days in Blighty too, seemingly brushing rationing etc under the carpet. Some things may have changed but for most people quality of life has never been better. In recent times anyway, the current situation with cost of living is pushing this down which is troubling to say the least.

I see there are renewed calls for Russia to be labelled a terrorist state. It met that criteria (as laid out in today's Guardian) some time ago I believe.

Ha yeah, the past always looks better.

I even catch myself thinking "yeah the 90s and 00s were so much better".

Yes and no, they were awful in different ways, but it's so easy to forget the crap as time flows on.