Current Affairs Ukraine

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tsubaki said:
That is a lot of opinion masquerading as fact, though - yes, people might have known POW were nearby but where they the same people who were coming up with targets and directing strikes? If that was considered a high value target, would POWs nearby mean it could not be hit by precision weapons?

I find it baffling that with so many distant, precision strikes going on at the moment that the idea that this might of been another one is so unlikely.
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There’s nothing pointing to this being a Uke attack other than a bizarre conspiracy guff story
 
tsubaki said:
TBF with regards to that strike on the prison, there is a decent chance that it was a Ukrainian strike but aimed at something other than its own POWs, like a suspected ammunition dump. There have been so many attacks on those lately that the Russians (as any army would) must surely have started hiding them better or putting them in places that aren't going to be so easily hit.
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I agree. More investigation is required. However if you take a look at the site you can clearly see that there is very little debris spread around. Given the distance from Ukranian lines the only platform capable of hitting the target is HIMARS/M270. If it was a HIMARS strike I would expect to see a lot of debris spread around, but I don’t see it.

The other thing to note is that POW’s are required to be kept away from the frontline under international law. By that measure alone Russia is guilty of yet another war crime
 
20:37
'This is a war of propaganda': John Pilger on Ukraine and ...
South China Morning Post · South China Morning Post
20 minutes, 37 seconds
3 weeks ago

Interesting opinion.


“The US does not give a damn about the people of Ukraine, the object here is to destroy the Russian Federation.

“I have covered seven or eight major wars and never have I seen a war coverage so utterly consumed by a tsunami of jingoism as this one.

“It is a war of propaganda on an unprecedented scale. Almost nothing one looks at in the Western press can be trusted about this invasion.

“Anything the Ukrainians do is glorified; anything Russian is vilified.

“Every day I look at the news and the source is always Ukrainian intelligence - in a propaganda operation which is quite brilliant, inventing incidents like a “chemical attack” which never happened.

“You need deep skills of scepticism which I am not sure the reading public possess, or have time for...unless you sit at the TV and deconstruct every report and most people do not have time.”
“In my time there were spaces in the media for mavericks - like myself - but they are all being squeezed out. Only on the social media is there any challenge to the mainstream which is now completely part of the machine.”
 
ramacca said:
20:37
'This is a war of propaganda': John Pilger on Ukraine and ...
South China Morning Post · South China Morning Post
20 minutes, 37 seconds
3 weeks ago

Interesting opinion.


“The US does not give a damn about the people of Ukraine, the object here is to destroy the Russian Federation.

“I have covered seven or eight major wars and never have I seen a war coverage so utterly consumed by a tsunami of jingoism as this one.

“It is a war of propaganda on an unprecedented scale. Almost nothing one looks at in the Western press can be trusted about this invasion.

“Anything the Ukrainians do is glorified; anything Russian is vilified.

“Every day I look at the news and the source is always Ukrainian intelligence - in a propaganda operation which is quite brilliant, inventing incidents like a “chemical attack” which never happened.

“You need deep skills of scepticism which I am not sure the reading public possess, or have time for...unless you sit at the TV and deconstruct every report and most people do not have time.”
“In my time there were spaces in the media for mavericks - like myself - but they are all being squeezed out. Only on the social media is there any challenge to the mainstream which is now completely part of the machine.”
Click to expand...
At the end of the day it’s his view, it’s his opinion. You obviously agree with it - I don’t. We can all Google views on the internet that correspond with our own ideals.

If you want to debate - then stop posting someone else’s views and highlight your own opinions and take it from there.

Take a look at @tsubaki. I don’t agree with a lot of stuff he posts and I’m sure he disagrees with a lot of what I post. But he brings a different angle to this thread, he definitely has a different view on things and puts his own views out there for debate not relying on someone else’s thoughts to back up his own position.
 
Mutzo Nutzo said:
At the end of the day it’s his view, it’s his opinion. You obviously agree with it - I don’t. We can all Google views on the internet that correspond with our own ideals.

If you want to debate - then stop posting someone else’s views and highlight your own opinions and take it from there.

Take a look at @tsubaki. I don’t agree with a lot of stuff he posts and I’m sure he disagrees with a lot of what I post. But he brings a different angle to this thread, he definitely has a different view on things and puts his own views out there for debate not relying on someone else’s thoughts to back up his own position.
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TBF Pilger does have a point - there really is an awful lot of media reporting, especially in the tabloid rags, which is either direct from Ukrainian government sources or worse anonymous internet sources (like the whole Putin is dying meme). What the truth actually is does require a lot of examination.

One of the worst examples is the really bizarre disconnect that occurs between the idea that Russia is a threat (which is probably true and which most of the media agrees on) with the idea that Russia has been interfering in domestic Western politics for years as part of that threat (which cannot possibly be true according to that same section of the media because then all the politicians like Trump and Johnson, or policies like Brexit, or worst of all the media that cheer-led for all of it are suspect).
 
ramacca said:
20:37
'This is a war of propaganda': John Pilger on Ukraine and ...
South China Morning Post · South China Morning Post
20 minutes, 37 seconds
3 weeks ago

Interesting opinion.


“The US does not give a damn about the people of Ukraine, the object here is to destroy the Russian Federation.

“I have covered seven or eight major wars and never have I seen a war coverage so utterly consumed by a tsunami of jingoism as this one.

“It is a war of propaganda on an unprecedented scale. Almost nothing one looks at in the Western press can be trusted about this invasion.

“Anything the Ukrainians do is glorified; anything Russian is vilified.

“Every day I look at the news and the source is always Ukrainian intelligence - in a propaganda operation which is quite brilliant, inventing incidents like a “chemical attack” which never happened.

“You need deep skills of scepticism which I am not sure the reading public possess, or have time for...unless you sit at the TV and deconstruct every report and most people do not have time.”
“In my time there were spaces in the media for mavericks - like myself - but they are all being squeezed out. Only on the social media is there any challenge to the mainstream which is now completely part of the machine.”
Click to expand...
Yawn, not this again. You know it wasn’t the US that invaded Ukraine?!
 
tsubaki said:
TBF Pilger does have a point - there really is an awful lot of media reporting, especially in the tabloid rags, which is either direct from Ukrainian government sources or worse anonymous internet sources (like the whole Putin is dying meme). What the truth actually is does require a lot of examination.

One of the worst examples is the really bizarre disconnect that occurs between the idea that Russia is a threat (which is probably true and which most of the media agrees on) with the idea that Russia has been interfering in domestic Western politics for years as part of that threat (which cannot possibly be true according to that same section of the media because then all the politicians like Trump and Johnson, or policies like Brexit, or worst of all the media that cheer-led for all of it are suspect).
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The British tabloids are fuel for the ignorant. I don’t think there’s many posters on here who’d be taken in by their jingoism.

They serve their political masters by pumping out whatever agenda they see fit. Personally I’d say Russia has had an influence on western political matters, by a combination of lobbying, funding, and by underhand nefarious deeds on social media. Just how much damage is done is still yet to be seen. But it is real and has/is happening.
 
devogue said:
If he actually used proper sources to back his statements up then I wouldn't care.
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Your proper source and his are just different. Most of Africa,Asia the Middle East and China would see his source as the more believable. You need to get out more.
 
ramacca said:
20:37
'This is a war of propaganda': John Pilger on Ukraine and ...
South China Morning Post · South China Morning Post
20 minutes, 37 seconds
3 weeks ago

Interesting opinion.


“The US does not give a damn about the people of Ukraine, the object here is to destroy the Russian Federation.

“I have covered seven or eight major wars and never have I seen a war coverage so utterly consumed by a tsunami of jingoism as this one.

“It is a war of propaganda on an unprecedented scale. Almost nothing one looks at in the Western press can be trusted about this invasion.

“Anything the Ukrainians do is glorified; anything Russian is vilified.

“Every day I look at the news and the source is always Ukrainian intelligence - in a propaganda operation which is quite brilliant, inventing incidents like a “chemical attack” which never happened.

“You need deep skills of scepticism which I am not sure the reading public possess, or have time for...unless you sit at the TV and deconstruct every report and most people do not have time.”
“In my time there were spaces in the media for mavericks - like myself - but they are all being squeezed out. Only on the social media is there any challenge to the mainstream which is now completely part of the machine.”
Click to expand...

Well, if I want sober, objective analysis I always go to John Pilger.

Sorry, i spelled "Knee jerk anti americanism" wrong.
 
Lobster Johnson said:
Well, if I want sober, objective analysis I always go to John Pilger.

Sorry, i spelled "Knee jerk anti americanism" wrong.
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Anti Americanism is more widespread than you might imagine,unlike the US itself and the Nato alliance huge parts of the world see American foreign policy as the real danger to world peace. They have this odd idea that an army is to protect your country's borders and not to roam around the planet using force to change governments for economic and ideological reasons.
 
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