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Uefa New Rules on Finance and Spending for European Clubs.

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The "investment" - or private equity is unaffected.

It can still spend as much as it wants on "infrastructure" and recoup this on increases on club value as revenue/assets increases in value

For us - the stadium.

It's win win mate this ruling. Less money for our rivals teams. Prices come down (eventually) for players/wages

and Stadium revenue incentive goes up.

Win Win for Everton

Assuming we can attract the investment to spend on stadium/infrastructure etc. Which we haven't exactly done a good job of recently :(

This sets in stone the current situation ... almost. Clubs with the highest income will make damn sure their debt is reduced. After that, worldwide, merchandise buying fans will ensure the Utds of this world are perpetually at the top of the tree. Seems to me this is not the outcome of a bitterly anti EPL Uefa President's plot against the big four, but an attempt to ensure that the current house of cards doesn't completely collapse.

Could be wrong of course. The new rules could come into play, birds start singing, flowers bloom, peace and love flourish and Everton have the dosh to compete. No harm in hoping, but any certainty about such an outcome is horribly misplaced in my opinion.

This is what i fear. You're 'global brands' (Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea etc) will rise to the top (or remain at the top) at the expense of the 'football clubs' :( You got a lotta red cards there!! :o

Some of the clubs with the highest revenue also have the biggest debt and wages bill. Man U, Chelsea, L'pool, Arsenal, WHU, to name a few.

Yeah, but don't they get 6 years to get the debts in line? And then its a case of not getting any more as opposed to getting rid of current debts? And in the case of Chelsea/Man C it doesn't matter anyway as the 'debt' is owed to the clubs own owners, not a third party?
 
Assuming we can attract the investment to spend on stadium/infrastructure etc. Which we haven't exactly done a good job of recently :(

This actually encourages "investment".

Because the returns are better defined - as are potential costs for "investors" and what they can actually "invest" in - infrastructure.

It also limits what "investors" can spend in other areas.

Therefore if the costs/returns are better defined by sensible regulation, investment historically is usually shown to go up....

Its Clintonomics with a touch of Obamanomics
 
This actually encourages "investment".

Because the returns are better defined - as are potential costs for "investors" and what they can actually "invest" in - infrastructure.

It also limits what "investors" can spend in other areas.

Therefore if the costs/returns are better defined by sensible regulation, investment historically is usually shown to go up....

Its Clintonomics with a touch of Obamanomics

Well i don't know about all that. If thats true then hopefully all this will have a positive effect on our investment prospects. But lets just say I won't be holding my breath!! :)
 
I'd be in favor of it alot more if Platini was also in favor of fair distribution of TV revenues but right now (and god I hate defending them) this move is less about Portsmouth and more about Chelsea and Man City. The big clubs in Europe have more competetion for the best players in the world and they are trying to get rid of the upstarts on the world stage (saves them money, guarentees more success). The prem is bad but LaLiga and Italy are a joke. In 10 years Real and Barca will be getting close to 500M euros in TV revenue while top 1/2 teams like Seville and Villareal will be lucky to scrape by for 10-15M. Juve and the Milans have the same advantage.
 
Honestly im still in two minds about this, at the mo we are really tieing up all our available capital in wages trying to push the envelope to keep our best players, we are currently trading at a loss. Its hard to envisage a scenario unless we progress the stadium issue were we can improve the balance sheet. My concern as i have said on here a few times is that we rely to much on David Moyes for the capital coming in and out of the club in terms of success on the pitch and astuteness in the market - this is a very tentative situation where much of the captal the club earn is based on one man in the unpredictability of football.

The fact that we havnt captaliesed on significantly improving the infrastructure of the club during what has been a good period for the club in comparrison to the last decade, mean we remain vulnerable. Unless we diverseify our dependency on Moyesy we will take a massive step back if or when he ever leaves.

When this ruling comes in it will seriously hit our ability to buy new players, with our existing contracts, unless we sell a crown jewel every so often. Teams like Chelsea and City will be able to invest at a capped level, while teams with the big stadia will still have a massive turnover. There are strategies the club can employ to keep us ahead of the game the academy etc - but this will be the same for almost any other club.

The only thing that could radicly take us forward is a new ground and the sooner the better - we all know the problem there, the one chink of hope i do see is that we may be an attractive proposition for someone wanting to invest in a club to progress them and make a return if they improve facilites by funding a stadium if the transfer market becomes less of an issue, yet you could say that about many other clubs.

I cant see how this will change our lot to be honest in fact it will just make it more difficult to invest in new talent or should i say proven talent in terms of transfer fees. Players will always want to go to clubs with the highest turnover for the chance of better wages will just mean we wont be signing as many players in future seasons as we have in past, simply because we dont generate that level of income and we are already spending everythig we make and beyond.
 
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Thing is though - the majority of clubs are trading at a loss now.

The new rules limit outside "investment" to wipe this out for player purchases and the like to £40 million every 3 years

Therefore the likes of Chelsea and Man City currently trading at a loss of £50 million A SEASON are going to be pinched heavily by it.

Do we really think Man City are going to be able to fill a 80000 seater stadium weak in weak out either? To cover their expenditure ? I don't.



I'll reiterate. These rules - encourage private investors to come in for the likes of Stadium development and commercial revenue generation which is what we need. They do this because clubs like ourselves with lower debts, tight control of wage budgets and transfer spending are in the best position for investors to come in and make a profit - due to rapid increase in club value after a stadium is developed.

Those clubs paying out £150k a week wages , operating on £40-£60 million losses a season (Chelsea / Man City) will need to fill their stadium to the limit to cover their current business models...... and do so quickly to have any chance of being ready for these regulations.


Whereas the adjustment for us - is merely a continuation with the current business model, get private equity in, get the stadium built and then have some additional private equity (below the £40million/3 year rule) and the increased turnover to further compete.

These rules therefore put a premium on MANAGERIAL (corporate and the football team management) ABILITY rather than the size of someone's chequebook (chelsea/man city).
 
Thing is though - the majority of clubs are trading at a loss now.

The new rules limit outside "investment" to wipe this out for player purchases and the like to £40 million every 3 years

Therefore the likes of Chelsea and Man City currently trading at a loss of £50 million A SEASON are going to be pinched heavily by it.

Do we really think Man City are going to be able to fill a 80000 seater stadium weak in weak out either? To cover their expenditure ? I don't.



I'll reiterate. These rules - encourage private investors to come in for the likes of Stadium development and commercial revenue generation which is what we need. They do this because clubs like ourselves with lower debts, tight control of wage budgets and transfer spending are in the best position for investors to come in and make a profit - due to rapid increase in club value after a stadium is developed.

Those clubs paying out £150k a week wages , operating on £40-£60 million losses a season (Chelsea / Man City) will need to fill their stadium to the limit to cover their current business models...... and do so quickly to have any chance of being ready for these regulations.


Whereas the adjustment for us - is merely a continuation with the current business model, get private equity in, get the stadium built and then have some additional private equity (below the £40million/3 year rule) and the increased turnover to further compete.

These rules therefore put a premium on MANAGERIAL (corporate and the football team management) ABILITY rather than the size of someone's chequebook (chelsea/man city).


I agree to an extent mate and hopefully you are right. It doesnt change the fact that we have very little capital to invest without selling a crown jewel every so often to fund tranfers. I know other clubs will find it challenging with their capital needs as well but some are more nicely poised then others. The stadium issue is key and we have been remiss during the period of relative succes under Moyes that we havnt had a stadium that hasnt been a milstone around our neck. We have had clubs equal and even with less stature then ourselves cream in and develop revenue streams that we havnt due to investing in infrastruture: Villa, City, Newcastle, Arsenal, Chelsea etc. I do think City will eventialy fill an 80.000 thousand seat stadium - theyve gone all meltish, but they do have quite a large and loyal fanase. St James Park is a fantastic facility which carries Newcastle or would have if their owners hadnt of fecked up.

Im all pro the current board they have done a terific job from the worst stating point imaginable over the last 10 years. But the stadium issue is a massive failure that has gone on far to long and i beleive we will see the effects with the new rules coming into place. Simply put we can only afford to pay what we have and not bring in new talent. There are ways around this of course focussing on the academy and developing our own players like we have done in the past. That is the challenge on the pitch but the need to grow revenue is apparent and from that point of view there is much we have tried to do and failed. The Kings Dock was a big oppurtunity missed, Kirkby was similarly. Meaning we are far to dependent on David Moyes and his ability to create success. Meaning much of our income is subjective and based on success and cant be gaurenteed from one year to another apart from TV rights - believe it or not that is prohibitive when it come to making a buisness plans.

Collectively i wasnt surprised Utd, etc supported this idea beacuse it does claw them back into a spending threshold, when you actually break down the figures though the amount the likes of Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal make on merchandiseing, sponsorship etc makes their relience on Tv Money less then us,. Granted they have high levels of debt, but this meant they would have to break even in terms of trading anyway, this way the ire from their fans over investment goes toward Uefa rather then the club. But the rules are annual so whatever level of debt they carry now wont be taken into account, they just have to break even by the time the rules come in - which with their spiraling levels of debt they would have to do anyway.

Heres the rub though, say Chelsea have a bad season or to be really suspicious have a burning need to overhaul their squad and dont qualify for Europe. Say they decide to drop 100 mill on thier team and subsequently dont get a Uefa licence to play in the Europa or CL. Next season they break even and win the title.

Or

Say Sunderland for example decide to borrow 30 million a season between now and 2012 - they assemble world class palyers in every position and challenge for the top four come 2012 knowing for the following five seasons they can service that debt by breaking even - of course done in such a way that they can maintain the wages. Not impossible.

In a way im suspicious, i can see this potentially as an end to the collective bargaining in the PL, which is why i think the big clubs support it. If the focus needs to be on self generated revenue how long are the likes of Utd etc going to be sharing around the pot of gold. Additionaly with the internt becoming a huge market, i think individual clubs are goignt o start reclaiming their share of their own broadcasting rights.

Anyhow i think we are moderatley placed but the stadium issue is a milestone around our neck, we need a 60,000 seater stadium and we needed it ten years ago - its the one issue the present board has massively failed with - i understand the reasons and am sympatethic to an extent around the circumstances - but it is something that is keeping us in poverty in reaitive and comparitive terms to clubs similar in stature and below.
 
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Agree with most of that except the statement of the stadium needed 10 years ago.

10 years ago we were almost relegated. A stadium redevelopment coupled to instability on/off the pitch is what we just didn't need.

We were barely staying in the premier league. Stability at the club was a priority 10 years ago. We were all over the shop.

Wheras now.....

Moyes - even upto November.... I had NO DOUBT we would not go down this year and we'd pull away ... when the injuries cleared up.

We are a stable club, with a high quality (and improving squad) with a great training facility and a youth team that we can see that is performing,
(LCAB was on it...) we determined that we've potentially got 1 or 2 players of high quality coming through for at least the next 4 years.....

So now yes, we're in a situation where we can, and need the stadium upgrade to 60000 purpose built.

And we have the stability to carry it too.



It's indicative to me - check the World Football thread about "More laughter at KOPITES.... IT WAS CHELSEA."

Broughton is now saying (privately) it could take three years to "sort out" (sell?) the RedShite.

We have the ability to carry the stadium. Due to the relatively low debt, controlled wages:turnover and the ability to bring in private equity - which Elstone said they were looking for or at very least "private investment".

We're all setup now to get the Stadium sorted... 10 years ago we just weren't.
 
Agree with most of that except the statement of the stadium needed 10 years ago.

10 years ago we were almost relegated. A stadium redevelopment coupled to instability on/off the pitch is what we just didn't need.

We were barely staying in the premier league. Stability at the club was a priority 10 years ago. We were all over the shop.

Wheras now.....

Moyes - even upto November.... I had NO DOUBT we would not go down this year and we'd pull away ... when the injuries cleared up.

We are a stable club, with a high quality (and improving squad) with a great training facility and a youth team that we can see that is performing,
(LCAB was on it...) we determined that we've potentially got 1 or 2 players of high quality coming through for at least the next 4 years.....

So now yes, we're in a situation where we can, and need the stadium upgrade to 60000 purpose built.

And we have the stability to carry it too.



It's indicative to me - check the World Football thread about "More laughter at KOPITES.... IT WAS CHELSEA."

Broughton is now saying (privately) it could take three years to "sort out" (sell?) the RedShite.

We have the ability to carry the stadium. Due to the relatively low debt, controlled wages:turnover and the ability to bring in private equity - which Elstone said they were looking for or at very least "private investment".

We're all setup now to get the Stadium sorted... 10 years ago we just weren't.

Well history speaks for its self mate, the Kings Dock was a fabulous oppurtunity that went begging so your right we were not in a state were we could manage to build such a facility. But its cause and effect - the likes of Newcastle, Utd, Arsenal where and have reaped the rewards. As a result our retail, ticket pricing, sposorship, corporote, commercial reveues all suffered. Say in effect we could add five million extra to the pot for each of those issues a year over the past 10 years ( i know im picking figures out of the air, but for arguements sake) that would be 25 mill a year over 10 years, 250 million.

If we can sort the stadium issue and look at new inovations i.e the internet market. The future looks very bright. Big ifs though.

Im a big supporter of the board, but i am cirtical of the current funding model both at Kirkby and any projected new stadium - we have seen very little detail bar naming rights etc in terms of the clubs share. The club should do everything popssible to fund this stadium even if it is to take on much longer term debt.

If not when these rules come in we will be exactly where we are which is threading water financialy, which really limits our ability to progress.
 
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Well history speaks for its self mate, the Kings Dock was a fabulous oppurtunity that went begging so your right we were not in a state were we could manage to build such a facility. But its cause and effect - the likes of Newcastle, Utd, Arsenal where and have reaped the rewards. As a result our retail, ticket pricing, sposorship, corporote, commercial all suffered say in effect we could add five million extra to the pot for each of those issues a year over the past 10 years ( i know im picking figures out of the air, but for arguements sake) that would be 25 mill a year over 10 years, 250 million.

If we can sort the stadium issue and look at new inovations i.e the internet market. The future looks very bright. Big ifs though.

Im a big supporter of the board, but i am cirticqal of the current funding model both at Kirkby and any projected new stadium - we have seen very little detail bar naming rights etc in terms of the clubs share. The club should do everything popssible to fund this stadium even if it is to take on much longer term debt.

If not when these rules come we will be exactly where we are which is threading water financialy, which really limits our ability to progress.

I can't see any bank not borrowing for Everton to build bricks and mortar.

They're often viewed as less riskier investments anyway. Even better would be a lower interest - return from a private investor for the stadium who can recoup that in increase in the share price.

We're certainly a better investment than that shower across the park - purely because of the stadium and untapped revenues
 
I can't see any bank not borrowing for Everton to build bricks and mortar.

They're often viewed as less riskier investments anyway. Even better would be a lower interest - return from a private investor for the stadium who can recoup that in increase in the share price.

We're certainly a better investment than that shower across the park - purely because of the stadium and untapped revenues

Agreed mate, Arsenal did something similar with the Emirates and what a great deal it proved to be, they will be one of the richest clubs in the world shortly. I know scale and circumstances are different but if we looked at this model and applied it to our own needs, praticularly if we know we know we need to break even in the next few years and wont be speculating as much on transfers. Its long term debt.

Its at least worth looking at in terms of a feasabilty, Arsenal are probably similar to Everton in the sense that they have probably as diverse shareholding as us - so it is possible. Addionaly a few billionaires came out of the woodwork when plans were annonced. I actually think perhaps the search for invstment is hindering us in looking at this kind of model as it would mean a radical speculation at a time when major shareholders are looking to sell.
 
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