Turn back the clock....18 Months

[davek]

For sure.

Despite the descent into farce that was the last couple of months, the Martinez era is already looking like a lost Golden Age.

How very different EFC might look today if Lukaku had sank those penalties when we were 2-0 up versus Hammers and again at Wembley in the early days of the Moshiri era.

Here, @davek ...

Imagine the heads exploding on here next summer if we are preparing for life in the Championship and Roberto can pick almost any job in world football on the back of winning the World Cup

Bottom line and with hindsight....I wish Roberto had been given a chance the next season and Moonhead had never darkened our doors.

EFF and Robero.....almost awesome together.

I think Belgium will get a QF berth and he'll end up back in Spain at a Valencia or Seville level club.

 

[davek]

Sin Miedo!!!

Ha Ha.

I forgot that.

 

[Toffeelover]

The past is just that, what is the point?

 

[Khalekan]

I never understood the chasing of koeman, with the other names being touted and talk of new ambitions, koeman should never have been anywhere near the shortlist

No, it was quite bizarre.

 

[Khalekan]

The past is just that, what is the point?

Indeed..

But sometimes the only thing we have to look forward to is the past

Right now being one of them.

 

[riddick]

We needed a seamless takeover in playing style when Martinez left. A similar method that suited the players we'd assembled AND someone who could sort out the back four from set pieces especially.

Moshiri is a clueless bean counter.

You know, that's a really good point. We assembled a team to play a certain way, the fans really enjoyed how that was going. Then they appointed a hoof and see merchant in Koeman who tore up everything. Why didn't we just address the pointless passing and terrible defense instead of starting literally from scratch again?

 

[LiamG]

Whilst we were dire at the back under Martinez, at least we had a system, tactics, and had a go (apart from when the players eventually downed tools, seems to be a common thread with our players, downing tools) we're just all over the gaff this season.

The players didn't pick their tools up at the start of the season.

 

[toffee-L]

The poll is a little bit deceiving; our run in Martinez's final season was the lowest I've ever felt about Everton ever, but of course I'd take that right now as enough points had been accumulated prior to that and we knew we were safe. Can people stop trying to rewrite history please, Martinez was garbage, it takes a special kind of delusion/arrogance to approach games the way he did with the players he had at his disposal. In each of his final two seasons we displayed relegation form in different stages, we were just average enough in other patches to avoid any real danger.

I just want a manager I can truly get behind now, someone who can inspire the fanbase not in the corny way Unsworth or Klopp try to but just from a point of total competence and a self belief that settles everyone down. The biggest problem with Martinez, Koeman and Unsworth is that when the going gets tough it didn't look like they had the belief in themselves that they could turn it around. With the position we are in that simply has to change.

 

[kenada_blue]

All Koeman had to do was sort the defence out and we'd be laughing.

But no. Bulldozed the lot, spent £200mill, and has us fighting relegation

 

[LiamG]

The poll is a little bit deceiving; our run in Martinez's final season was the lowest I've ever felt about Everton ever, but of course I'd take that right now as enough points had been accumulated prior to that and we knew we were safe. Can people stop trying to rewrite history please, Martinez was garbage, it takes a special kind of delusion/arrogance to approach games the way he did with the players he had at his disposal. In each of his final two seasons we displayed relegation form in different stages, we were just average enough in other patches to avoid any real danger.

I just want a manager I can truly get behind now, someone who can inspire the fanbase not in the corny way Unsworth or Klopp try to but just from a point of total competence and a self belief that settles everyone down. The biggest problem with Martinez, Koeman and Unsworth is that when the going gets tough it didn't look like they had the belief in themselves that they could turn it around. With the position we are in that simply has to change.

It's you that is rewriting history. We were very good under Martinez in all of his seasons.

We just couldn't defend and eventually that caused the confidence to ebb away (both players and supporters) and when Lukaku and Barkley downed tools we had nothing else.

I said it at the time. It wasn't Martinez. It wasn't our wingers who didn't "work hard enough". It was our defenders. They have been rubbish for ages now. Baines and Coleman were never great defenders. Jags has been finished for years. Distin was our one man counter attack stopping machine and unfortunately age crept up on him. Stones was young. Funes Mori isn't great.

But personally I think the real problem was the hold Baines, Howard, Jags, Barry (even) etc had over the dressing room.

And we as fans when Martinez went after one of them (Baines) instead of siding with the manager we sided with the players who was obviously finished.

The same thing happened to Moyes at Utd. Their finished players blamed Moyes because they themselves were done and it was only when he was fired that became apparent.

Koeman should have got rid of our entire back 4 and GK. Instead he spent the money wasting it on positions we didn't need.

 

[LiamG]

You know, that's a really good point. We assembled a team to play a certain way, the fans really enjoyed how that was going. Then they appointed a hoof and see merchant in Koeman who tore up everything. Why didn't we just address the pointless passing and terrible defense instead of starting literally from scratch again?

They did that because every pundit (most RS players) kept going on about how Evertonians like to see direct football and it was hard to argue given what was going on in the ground.

They gave those fans what they wanted. Moyes MK2. Unfortunately for the board the rest of the fan base was now used to champagne football and Moyes MK2 just wasn't good enough.

We are a club with a split fanbase to how we want to play. Split owners to what the plan is. Split squad etc.

It's a mess and it's a mess because of the lack of leadership at the top. This is what Steve Walsh is for and he has been a disaster.

And it is important to look back. At the very least so we understand the mistakes we made so they aren't made in the future.

Although I do think this season is now about survival not long term planning. The game at the weekend was deeply worrying.

 

[royalblue66]

Same feeling, Numb.

 

[toffee-L]

It's you that is rewriting history. We were very good under Martinez in all of his seasons.

We just couldn't defend and eventually that caused the confidence to ebb away (both players and supporters) and when Lukaku and Barkley downed tools we had nothing else.

I said it at the time. It wasn't Martinez. It wasn't our wingers who didn't "work hard enough". It was our defenders. They have been rubbish for ages now. Baines and Coleman were never great defenders. Jags has been finished for years. Distin was our one man counter attack stopping machine and unfortunately age crept up on him. Stones was young. Funes Mori isn't great.

But personally I think the real problem is the hold Baines, Howard, Jags, Barry (even) etc had over the dressing room.

The same thing happened to Moyes at Utd. Their finished players blamed Moyes because they themselves were done and it was only when he was fired that became apparent.

Koeman should have got rid of our entire back 4 and GK. Instead he spent the money wasting it on positions we didn't need.

I hate to break it to you but saying we were good in all of his 3 seasons is disingenuous at the very least. Defending is a major facet of the game, how can you state that we were "good" and then completely contradict that statement by reeling off a list of problems that hampered the team. Part of being a manager is overcoming difficult problems and its what sets the best apart from the average ones.

And can we please get a bit of perspective regarding our attacking threat regarding Martinez. Look at Klopp's Liverpool, they can't defend to save their lives but never under Martinez did we play as devastating football as they do now, and have since he took over. And he doesn't have a 25 goal a season striker at his disposal like Martinez and Koeman did. In fact in Martinez's first season, an excellent campaign to say the least, the defence was our foundation and the back four played very, very well.

Saying Coleman and Baines are poor defenders is wrong as well. Baines has been part of several seasons under Moyes and Martinez's first season were we would leak around a goal a game, which is an excellent record in premier league terms. As for Coleman just look at some of the goals we haemorrhage from his position this season to give you an inclination of what a vital player he has been for us.

As it happens I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[LiamG]

Don't forget how low we all felt after that 3-0 hammering at Sunderland the night before he got the boot. 99% of us were all utterly desperate for him to go in the end. I think as football fans it's easy to romanticise the past, I do it all the time and have been doing it again with Moyes. There's a bit of me that thinks we should have gone back to him and given him until the end of the season and a chance to rebuild his career (if we're going to end up with Big Sam or Pulis anyway, might as well have done that). But things were heading south under Martinez no doubt. However, talking to @Jim Keoghan for the pod the other week, Jim said that he spoke with Martinez for his book, Martinez was adamant that with another transfer window he would have been able to kick us on. I'm not too sure, but it was all ideology with 'Berto, the man could have kept his job if he'd have just changed slightly and made us a little bit harder to beat. Regardless, I liked him so much and wanted it to work. He's probably a little smug now because he's going to win the World Cup and we've gone the other way.

I think he would have. For a start he wouldn't have tried to rebuild the squad.

He just needed two CBs, LB, Barry replacement and we would have been able to field a team without any major weaknesses.

We could have afforded that with the extra TV money plus Stones (who was going no matter what).

 

[LiamG]

I hate to break it to you but saying we were good in all of his 3 seasons is disingenuous at the very least. Defending is a major facet of the game, how can you state that we were "good" and then completely contradict that statement by reeling off a list of problems that hampered the team. Part of being a manager is overcoming difficult problems and its what sets the best apart from the average ones.

And can we please get a bit of perspective regarding our attacking threat regarding Martinez. Look at Klopp's Liverpool, they can't defend to save their lives but never under Martinez did we play as devastating football as they do now, and have since he took over. And he doesn't have a 25 goal a season striker at his disposal like Martinez and Koeman did. In fact in Martinez's first season, an excellent campaign to say the least, the defence was our foundation and the back four played very, very well.

Saying Coleman and Baines are poor defenders is wrong as well. Baines has been part of several seasons under Moyes and Martinez's first season were we would leak around a goal a game, which is an excellent record in premier league terms. As for Coleman just look at some of the goals we haemorrhage from his position this season to give you an inclination of what a vital player he has been for us.

As it happens I agree with the rest of your post.

The defence was one of the best in the league in his first season and it had nothing to do with Moyes.

It was because we were able to play a high line when both Stones and Distin were in the team allowing us to go on a 7 game winning streak. Take those two out we either have to park the bus to protect the OAPs or get crucified on the counter. 3 different managers same problem.

Baines and Coleman were great going forward but even us as Everton fans can't claim them to be good defensively. When is the last time you saw either stop a cross?

We had a good defensive record under Koeman. Keane looked good playing park the bus football at Burnley. When they were forced to defend high both Baines and Coleman are poor defenders.

Being able to defend high and one on one is the litmus test for a top defender. Anyone can defend in a team that parks the bus.