Top Four Possibility

[Barnfred 55]

Good point. In that way also it can give a real headache to teams not equipped to take on the massive workload.

Klopp went ultra OTT though changing whole teams rather than just resting 2/3 key players.

 

[rochdaleblue]

United are taking the EL seriously due to the fact of the prize on offer (champions league qualification) and that they have no guarantees that they will qualify for it via their league placing. Mourinho is under big pressure to get CL football due to his outlay last summer and his hoping of recruiting the likes of greizeman this summer.

 

[TraffordBlue]

Fans of a lot of clubs seem to underestimate how tough a task it is to overcome a gap of around 7-10 points, especially at this stage in the season. The only way that will happen is if one team implodes, and the other puts together a great run of form. That's far more likely to happen down at the bottom rather than in the top 6. That's why sides like Hull and Sunderland can come from looking dead and buried to get past a team like Leicester who have nothing left to give. That doesn't happen at the top and is why we had little to no chance of getting a top 4 finish.

Ignoring the collapse Liverpool and Man United would both have to have for us to overtake them, we also have to appreciate where we are as a team. We are 7th and I think that is a fair reflection of our side. When it comes to the crunch we fail to win in 2 important scenarios. The first is in away games where we are the far superior side in terms of the players we have in the team, and league position. We often go away to sides like Stoke and Middlesbrough and struggle to beat them. We only just got past Palace in the 87th minute before that, and similarly had to get a late equaliser at Hull. Then we have the away games against the "big 6" where our win record is absolutely pathetic. I would guess we will get 2-3 points maximum out of Spurs, Liverpool, Man United and Arsenal away.

 

[argietoffee]

More chance that Pullis will catch us than we catch anyone currently above us

 

[Barnfred 55]

Fans of a lot of clubs seem to underestimate how tough a task it is to overcome a gap of around 7-10 points, especially at this stage in the season. The only way that will happen is if one team implodes, and the other puts together a great run of form. That's far more likely to happen down at the bottom rather than in the top 6. That's why sides like Hull and Sunderland can come from looking dead and buried to get past a team like Leicester who have nothing left to give. That doesn't happen at the top and is why we had little to no chance of getting a top 4 finish.

Ignoring the collapse Liverpool and Man United would both have to have for us to overtake them, we also have to appreciate where we are as a team. We are 7th and I think that is a fair reflection of our side. When it comes to the crunch we fail to win in 2 important scenarios. The first is in away games where we are the far superior side in terms of the players we have in the team, and league position. We often go away to sides like Stoke and Middlesbrough and struggle to beat them. We only just got past Palace in the 87th minute before that, and similarly had to get a late equaliser at Hull. Then we have the away games against the "big 6" where our win record is absolutely pathetic. I would guess we will get 2-3 points maximum out of Spurs, Liverpool, Man United and Arsenal away.

Realistically you have to say that 3 draws and a defeat out of those 4 games is quite acceptable. You can't expect to go to these places and win. That doesn't mean that we aren't capable of beating them on their grounds. We have a good team containing 2 players in particular that are capable of winning any game.

 

[Mountfield1985]

We only just got past Palace in the 87th minute before that, and similarly had to get a late equaliser at Hull. Then we have the away games against the "big 6" where our win record is absolutely pathetic. I would guess we will get 2-3 points maximum out of Spurs, Liverpool, Man United and Arsenal away.

The way we play i'd actually be more confident going to those teams, than to the teams down the bottom.

I think the 4-0 v Man City could be a turning point for us with these fixtures. They trust the 3-5-2, and they know how well it works against teams who are going to attack us and dominate the ball. There's no reason why we can't get a win or two from those grounds.

 

[granter79]

Realistically you have to say that 3 draws and a defeat out of those 4 games is quite acceptable. You can't expect to go to these places and win. That doesn't mean that we aren't capable of beating them on their grounds. We have a good team containing 2 players in particular that are capable of winning any game.

If the manager said this in a presser we would be fuming. I believe that we have kicked on in the last 6 weeks or so and I would expect us to go to these places looking to get 3 points. 4 teams mentioned have shown they are not firing consistently so no reason for the knife to a gun fight attitude of old. I believe the plucky old Everton tag should be put to bed and us a s fans should start to have a bit more belief.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Realistically you have to say that 3 draws and a defeat out of those 4 games is quite acceptable. You can't expect to go to these places and win. That doesn't mean that we aren't capable of beating them on their grounds. We have a good team containing 2 players in particular that are capable of winning any game.

What's annoying is that the so called top 6 lose games at home every single season yet Moyes Utd aside, in recent times it has never been to us. Arsenal for me is the most annoying. Multiple teams turn them over on a bad day (Villa and Watford spring to mind) yet whenever we play them we make them look absolutely top class. Liverpool doesn't even need mentioning, they can put out their worst line up in prem history and still comfortably beat us.

 

[Pabbers]

No chance

 

[Barnfred 55]

If the manager said this in a presser we would be fuming. I believe that we have kicked on in the last 6 weeks or so and I would expect us to go to these places looking to get 3 points. 4 teams mentioned have shown they are not firing consistently so no reason for the knife to a gun fight attitude of old. I believe the plucky old Everton tag should be put to bed and us a s fans should start to have a bit more belief.

The definition of "Expect" is regard as very likely to happen. If you believe it's very likely that we will win each of those games, then I would question your judgement.

If you read my post again I actually said that I believe we are capable of going to those games and coming away with 3 points. I believe we are capable of beating anybody. I agree that our record at some of these grounds is frighteningly bad and we do need to improve. I also expect us to go to these places looking to get 3 points, but that isn't the same as going to these places expecting to win. And if we do come away with a draw then that, in my opinion, is an acceptable result.

 

[Barnfred 55]

What's annoying is that the so called top 6 lose games at home every single season yet Moyes Utd aside, in recent times it has never been to us. Arsenal for me is the most annoying. Multiple teams turn them over on a bad day (Villa and Watford spring to mind) yet whenever we play them we make them look absolutely top class. Liverpool doesn't even need mentioning, they can put out their worst line up in prem history and still comfortably beat us.

It is annoying, especially when you consider we often play these teams off the park at home. And in fairness, there have been some decent performances away when we haven't got our just rewards. So I do think we have moved away from the "knife to a gunfight" scenario, even if the stats don't always back that up.

The one exception, as you rightly and annoyingly point out, is the RS. I never feel confident against them, home or away.

 

[TraffordBlue]

The definition of "Expect" is regard as very likely to happen. If you believe it's very likely that we will win each of those games, then I would question your judgement.

If you read my post again I actually said that I believe we are capable of going to those games and coming away with 3 points. I believe we are capable of beating anybody. I agree that our record at some of these grounds is frighteningly bad and we do need to improve. I also expect us to go to these places looking to get 3 points, but that isn't the same as going to these places expecting to win. And if we do come away with a draw then that, in my opinion, is an acceptable result.

I agree with what you are saying here, but the thread is about possibly getting a top 4 finish. At this stage, we would have to get about 6-7 points from those 12 to stand a chance and we all know that won't happen. Even then it would be a very difficult task due to the other problem we have which is grinding out wins against inferior sides away. Having said that, I would obviously be delighted at getting 6-7 points from them games and I think that could change the mindset for the future that we now mean business and we're not the pushovers we have been in the past 25-30 years.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I agree with what you are saying here, but the thread is about possibly getting a top 4 finish. At this stage, we would have to get about 6-7 points from those 12 to stand a chance and we all know that won't happen. Even then it would be a very difficult task due to the other problem we have which is grinding out wins against inferior sides away. Having said that, I would obviously be delighted at getting 6-7 points from them games and I think that could change the mindset for the future that we now mean business and we're not the pushovers we have been in the past 25-30 years.

6-7 points would be brilliant mate, especially if one of the 3 pointers was at Anfield

But I don't agree totally with the pushover comment in that I think we have already made strides with this over the last 3/4 years. This seasons Chelsea drubbing aside (plus a number conveniently forgotten derbies), nobody has really turned us over during this period, and we have been unlucky at times in games away to United Arsenal and Chelsea. We literally handed Chelsea a point in last seasons game at the Bridge.

The RS continue to be the exception for some reason. I just hate playing them.

 

[brieverton]

I would accept 7th along with one win at one of our bogey grounds, the Pit being the obvious priority.

Utd and RS are our most difficult away games on paper, I would fancy our chances more against Spurs/Arsenal.

Was thinking that Arsenal might be our opportunity, but that fixture is their last home game and with things as tight as they are, they will probably still need points.

As @Barnfred 55 says, we are capable of winning at any/all of these grounds (I'll settle for one this season!), our biggest enemy is ourselves.

One thing with the RS game is that our fitness has noticeably improved since then, and I don't expect us to be heavy legged after 60 minutes anymore. We will need to play deep and counter, it is made for a 3-5-2 that game. If not that game, then I'm confident Koeman will get it right tactically against them sooner or later, at home if not away. The RS are all hype, hype, hype.

Not saying we'll beat them in April, I wouldn't dare hope anymore, but with the right attitude we can definately do it. Our problem against them is 90% psychological. The new signings and players not so used to not turning up against them might for once, just once, weigh in our favour.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Not gonna get fourth but I hate this feeling we aren't capable of getting anything at Arsenal,Spurs, Utd or pool. These are exactly the places we need to start winning at. Sick of us going to these places like rabbits caught in headlights,they aren't even that bloody good. If the game was at goodison we would fancy ourselves big time.