Current Affairs Tommy Robinson Bailed

[dholliday]

He’s a full on balloon and I’m amazed that he’s managed to court attention like he has . I don’t mean it to be hyperbole but watching him you can genuinely see how fascists of the past rose to power , if he was orator it’d be even more concerning.

Exactly. Fascists are bad bells with some good points. Otherwise they'd never have got the votes in the first place.

 

[Harryflashman]

Exactly. Fascists are bad bells with some good points. Otherwise they'd never have got the votes in the first place.

Pandering to what people want or think they want to hear isn’t a good point . Go through history people are always frightened , always and they always want to blame someone for their problems . Not earning enough money , lost your job . house too small ? Blame the Jews , blacks, Irish , poles etc

 

[Number_25]

Exactly. Fascists are bad bells with some good points. Otherwise they'd never have got the votes in the first place.

I'm really sorry, but you're an apologist for an ideology that put people in death camps.

I had a bit of respect for you, but I now realise that you're too far gone for me to care about.

I will pray for you.

 

[dholliday]

Pandering to what people want or think they want to hear isn’t a good point . Go through history people are always frightened , always and they always want to blame someone for their problems . Not earning enough money , lost your job . house too small ? Blame the Jews , blacks, Irish , poles etc

You've got one side ignoring the bad bell aspect to focus on these few good points (which aren't as simple as blame this, blame that by the way).

Then you've got the other side ignoring these good points and only focussing on the bad bell bit.

So both sides think they're absolutely in the right. But they can't both be right. Can one side be totally right about him? No, because on one side you've got good points, and on the other you've got bad bell.

The truth is, as you yourself say, somewhere in the middle. If the mainstream can't focus on those few good points bad bells make, then the bad bells will make it for the masses. And thus fascism rises.

Tommy is an actual hero to many (not to me obvs, as I'm not ignoring he's a bad bell). He's a villain to many too (again not to me, as I'm not ignoring he has some good points).

The good points I'm not gonna go into as it's a can of endless worms. If you're truly interested, youtube for example his chat with Sargon of Arkard (Akkad?), who's also a bad bell with some good points.

 

[dholliday]

you're an apologist for an ideology that put people in death camps.

reported

 

[Harryflashman]

You've got one side ignoring the bad bell aspect to focus on these few good points (which aren't as simple as blame this, blame that by the way).

Then you've got the other side ignoring these good points and only focussing on the bad bell bit.

So both sides think they're absolutely in the right. But they can't both be right. Can one side be totally right about him? No, because on one side you've got good points, and on the other you've got bad bell.

The truth is, as you yourself say, somewhere in the middle. If the mainstream can't focus on those few good points bad bells make, then the bad bells will make it for the masses. And thus fascism rises.

Tommy is an actual hero to many (not to me obvs, as I'm not ignoring he's a bad bell). He's a villain to many too (again not to me, as I'm not ignoring he has some good points).

The good points I'm not gonna go into as it's a can of endless worms. If you're truly interested, youtube for example his chat with Sargon of Arkard (Akkad?), who's also a bad bell with some good points.

What are his good points ? He’s an opportunist that recognised people want someone to vicariously live their lives through . Middle class cowards see a lad who throws a dig and ‘says what he thinks ‘ whilst their Missus nags them to take the bins out and the working class lads who’ll have a fight identify with somebody they think is like them but is on newsnight and sky news and they believe is up for making a difference whilst persecuted by the state . I’ll be honest I find it all a bit sad.

 

[dholliday]

What are his good points ? He’s an opportunist that recognised people want someone to vicariously live their lives through . Middle class cowards see a lad who throws a dig and ‘says what he thinks ‘ whilst their Missus nags them to take the bins out and the working class lads who’ll have a fight identify with somebody they think is like them but is on newsnight and sky news and they believe is up for making a difference whilst persecuted by the state . I’ll be honest I find it all a bit sad.

I find it sad too. It's the intellectual dishonesty from both sides that I find sad. This black/white tribalism which has its default rigid beliefs. We (educated society) used to be more intellectually curious.

 

[Groucho]

Exactly. Fascists are bad bells with some good points. Otherwise they'd never have got the votes in the first place.

No.

No no no no no.

They have no good points.

Are you for real?

 

[dholliday]

No.

No no no no no.

They have no good points.

Are you for real?

If they have no good points (by points I mean arguments, not character), then how do they garner so much support? How do fascists historically gain support among the masses? They appeal to sensitive issues that the mainstream shy away from, issues that have some ugly or unwanted truth to them.

I'm not saying anything remotely controversial or new.

Or put another way, why do you think Tommy Robinson or any popularist fascist gain popular support? Now remember, I'm not supporting him or any fascist myself. I am however thinking about why so many do.

 

[Groucho]

If they have no good points (by points I mean arguments, not character), then how do they garner so much support? How do fascists historically gain support among the masses? They appeal to sensitive issues that the mainstream shy away from, issues that have some ugly or unwanted truth to them.

I'm not saying anything remotely controversial or new.

Or put another way, why do you think Tommy Robinson or any popularist fascist gain popular support? Now remember, I'm not supporting him myself. I am however thinking about why so many do.

Fascists do not have any good points, and they only gain followers through exploitation of unfounded and baseless, ill-informed fears.

They do not have any good arguments, their followings are always based on a (usually not very complex) web of lies.

You know this. They do not use ugly or unwanted truths, they use lies. Lies. Not truths.

There are no good arguments for racists. None.

 

[roydo]

If they have no good points (by points I mean arguments, not character), then how do they garner so much support? How do fascists historically gain support among the masses? They appeal to sensitive issues that the mainstream shy away from, issues that have some ugly or unwanted truth to them.

I'm not saying anything remotely controversial or new.

Or put another way, why do you think Tommy Robinson or any popularist fascist gain popular support? Now remember, I'm not supporting him or any fascist myself. I am however thinking about why so many do.

You are making the assumption that folk who may vote for them are seeing "good" things in them. When generally, they are scared/prejudiced about something and the rhetoric they can buy.

 

[roydo]

And what Grouch said.

 

[dholliday]

You are making the assumption that folk who may vote for them are seeing "good" things in them. When generally, they are scared/prejudiced about something and the rhetoric they can buy.

I disagree slightly. In that I agree with you some are scared/prejudiced/simplistic and vote accordingly, but others are indeed seeing good arguments (and unfortunately ignoring the bad bell bit).

Whether you agree with those certain good arguments is a matter of debate, but I would venture those that do agree aren't doing so because they're scared/prejudiced/simplistic. Personally, the bad bellism of Tommy overrides any good points he may have, so he'd never get my support. But I can see why he does get support.

 

[roydo]

seeing good arguments

Like what?

 

[PhilM]

There's a significant difference between Tories, and people that vote for the Tory party. If you can't work that out, then I really am sorry.

Would you like to explain the difference bar one being members of a political party and those who support said political party? Or are we talking 17th-19th politics?