Current Affairs The worst post-war Prime Minister

[Bruce Wayne]

Dunlop’s took their investment to a whole host of countries including the USSR and Eastern bloc countries iirc, where they took advantage of vastly lower labour costs and could increase their margin.

Thatcher decimated British manufacturing and didn’t just bring the Unions back into line, she crushed them, manufacturing was merely ‘collateral damage’ in her quest.

As I said to Joe in the EU thread yesterday, manufacturing has grown in the UK by an average of around 1.5% per year since the 40s. It's a fallacy that there is no manufacturing in the UK.

 

[flibbyflob]

When you consider how bad Major was and see how few votes he has it shows how bad things have been since him. Thatcher will always win this vote comfortably but it is Blair for me, his legacy after taking us to a war that we should never have got involved in will haunt us for decades.

 

[Methuselah]

with respect, that still only makes it an opinion, not a fact

Sorry, it is a fact that the country, under Labour,was in an absolute mess. This is why the Conservatives were voted in. Don't know what your interpretation of a 'fact' is? Incidentally, just out of interest, how old were you in 1980?

 

[peteblue]

She started the process. Laid the groundwork.

She’ll be getting the blame for the second Croatia goal next........

 

[tsubaki]

Wouldn't really claim morality when discussing Thatcher. It is recent living memory. Haven't a clue? Ugly thing to say. She sacrificed her people for greed and the repercussions still reverberate today. I've read plenty from the Friedman ideology she followed to the suffering of communities splintered by her actions, I lived through it all, I stood up and fought against her policies out of principle and care for others. Weep for the country? Sanctimonious prig. Many did and still do. Be better.

The mad thing is that a lot of what Corbyn wants to do - have a nationalized railway system, have student grants etc - are policies that Thatcher had. Even the proposal to have the top rate of income tax at 45% would have been below every level that Thatcher had it at between 1979 and 1988 (when it went down to 40%).

 

[Walken]

Sorry, it is a fact that the country, under Labour,was in an absolute mess. This is why the Conservatives were voted in. Don't know what your interpretation of a 'fact' is? Incidentally, just out of interest, how old were you in 1980?

I see you've altered your statement somewhat, which like everyone elses is influenced by their bias and beliefs. This would be a fair interpretation for me

A fact is a statement that is true and can be verified objectively, or proven. In other words, a fact is true and correct no matter what. An opinion, however, is a statement that holds an element of belief; it tells how someone feels. An opinion is not always true and cannot be proven.

I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong, I'm saying they are not a matter of historical fact.
The beliefs you hold are open to interpretation, you can play the age game if you want, that merely cheapens your argument.

 

[Methuselah]

I see you've altered your statement somewhat, which like everyone elses is influenced by their bias and beliefs. This would be a fair interpretation for me

A fact is a statement that is true and can be verified objectively, or proven. In other words, a fact is true and correct no matter what. An opinion, however, is a statement that holds an element of belief; it tells how someone feels. An opinion is not always true and cannot be proven.

I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong, I'm saying they are not a matter of historical fact.
The beliefs you hold are open to interpretation, you can play the age game if you want, that merely cheapens your argument.

Your logic is strange. Can you confirm that it is a fact that Labour got voted out and the Conservatives got voted in, or was I dreaming it,? Was it because everyones favourite colour was blue at the time or was it because Labour had made an unholy mess of their time in government? I would be interested in hearing your 'facts'. I note that you avoid my question about age which leads me to think you were born after 1980 so all you know about that period is what you have read. No doubt influenced by other peoples 'opinions'. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Walken]

Your logic is strange. Can you confirm that it is a fact that Labour got voted out and the Conservatives got voted in, or was I dreaming it,? Was it because everyones favourite colour was blue at the time or was it because Labour had made an unholy mess of their time in government? I would be interested in hearing your 'facts'. I note that you avoid my question about age which leads me to think you were born after 1980 so all you know about that period is what you have read. No doubt influenced by other peoples 'opinions'. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Again you've changed your statement, what you have stated here highlighted is a matter of historical fact, the original statement, 'Labour put the country in the worst mess since the war, and Thatcher fixed that mess' is not a matter of historical fact. Being there gives you first hand experience to strengthen your beliefs, but it still doesn't make them a matter of historical fact.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Your logic is strange. Can you confirm that it is a fact that Labour got voted out and the Conservatives got voted in, or was I dreaming it,? Was it because everyones favourite colour was blue at the time or was it because Labour had made an unholy mess of their time in government? I would be interested in hearing your 'facts'. I note that you avoid my question about age which leads me to think you were born after 1980 so all you know about that period is what you have read. No doubt influenced by other peoples 'opinions'. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

But it’s largely an opinion on whether a government is successful or not. Not a fact. There are too many variables on how you’d define success. I’m not sure how this is too hard too understand tbh.
I was born in 1979 therefore I’m just allowed to have an opinion on this

 

[Black Belt Jones]

Cameron is the worst if you want to talk pure politics - stepping on one's own penis to an extent never seen before in UK political history, conjuring a constitutional and economic crisis out of thin air.
At least with Eden (or Chamberlain before him, although I know Nev divides historians) they were wrestling with massive geopolitical events. The Suez crisis does sound like an absolute fiasco, complete political misjudgement of where we stood in the world, but you can at least appreciate the scale of the event.

 

[Methuselah]

Again you've changed your statement, what you have stated here highlighted is a matter of historical fact, the original statement, 'Labour put the country in the worst mess since the war, and Thatcher fixed that mess' is not a matter of historical fact. Being there gives you first hand experience to strengthen your beliefs, but it still doesn't make them a matter of historical fact.

In 1979 the Conservatives won with a majority of over 40 seats. In 1983 Thatcher had improved things so much that Conservatives won the 1983 election with 143 seat majority. They are facts by the way. I would be interested in knowing why you think Labour lost those two elections considering you think it is only my opinion? Of course I've changed my statement, its a different post. I haven't changed the principle.

 

[Methuselah]

Cameron is the worst if you want to talk pure politics - stepping on one's own penis to an extent never seen before in UK political history, conjuring a constitutional and economic crisis out of thin air.
At least with Eden (or Chamberlain before him, although I know Nev divides historians) they were wrestling with massive geopolitical events. The Suez crisis does sound like an absolute fiasco, complete political misjudgement of where we stood in the world, but you can at least appreciate the scale of the event.

BBJ, I agree with your comments on Cameron but I still think Major edges it. Regarding Suez, it often goes unnoticed that France were also involved, along with Israel.

 

[Walken]

In 1979 the Conservatives won with a majority of over 40 seats. In 1983 Thatcher had improved things so much that Conservatives won the 1983 election with 143 seat majority. They are facts by the way. I would be interested in knowing why you think Labour lost those two elections considering you think it is only my opinion? Of course I've changed my statement, its a different post. I haven't changed the principle.

Bizarre

 

[PITA]

The question was ‘worst PM’ not the ‘best PM’, try and keep up.....

Did you mean to say 'Best PM for people with money'?

 

[PITA]

Well I lived through it.

I lived through it and I have a different opinion.