Current Affairs The WOKE

[Alan Whittle]

Its like me turning up to your house holding a broom stick and telling you and your partner that this broom stick is my lover called lucinda and you MUST refer to her by name otherwise I'll get very upset and angry

Yes, just feck off with that. We were watching Corrie. Don’t come round anymore.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Well actually one of the big concerns of our, and arguably most, democratic systems is allowing minority voices to be heard and not subsumed by the majority.

There are limits to that. Madison correctly pointed out that we do not want tyranny of the majority. However, we want tyranny of a small minority even less. We have lots of pejorative words for those governmental systems for a reason.

I think trans people are going to have to bargain out something they can live with if they want to end the pushback. The smartest thing the gay and lesbian activists did was to quit trying to aggressively push their culture, and simply frame their issue as centered on having the same legal rights as everyone else. That part is an easy sell to a majority of people who live in most Western countries.

Trans is a much stickier set of issues, in part because of the problem of kids. If I were giving their activists advice, I would tell them to push 'it/they' as the generic pronouns for everyone and quit mucking about with the individual identity stuff. We already did a transition from the generic 'he' to 'she' fairly seamlessly, and if you want my opinion that one didn't provide value for the cognitive price and also primed the present fracas. Either solution is as arbitrary as whether we drive on the right side of the road or the left, and you don't see us changing that one across societies because of the inevitable societal costs. The risks associated with changing which side we drive on are obviously much higher, but it's the same type of problem.

We would at least have a better reason this time, which we need if a small minority is to build a large enough alliance to get a sizable language change through. It's also just a more sensible solution in logical terms. Statistically speaking, a generic person is a 'she', but not by a lot. It makes more sense to simply not drag gender into it in the first place.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I'm going to take these point by point, if that's alright with you.



All of those things you list have effects on other people. Transitioning only effects the person concerned.



Indeed, there are rules and processes. If you can point to some sort of outlaw gender clinic that's operating completely off the grid, I'd be very surprised.



Why would I care if you and Lucinda are happy and not hurting anyone else? Would she like a cup of tea?



No mate, I'd just be treating you and your choices with respect. You wanting to be with Lucinda has zero effect on my life, I'm happy you're living your authentic life.



Again, watch the video. You might learn something.

Bravo

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I'm going to take these point by point, if that's alright with you.



All of those things you list have effects on other people. Transitioning only effects the person concerned.



Indeed, there are rules and processes. If you can point to some sort of outlaw gender clinic that's operating completely off the grid, I'd be very surprised.



Why would I care if you and Lucinda are happy and not hurting anyone else? Would she like a cup of tea?



No mate, I'd just be treating you and your choices with respect. You wanting to be with Lucinda has zero effect on my life, I'm happy you're living your authentic life.



Again, watch the video. You might learn something.

I think the issue with trans is that it shouldn't be lumped in with LGBTQ imo. As you say why should anyone care what another person does which I agree completely. If a gay person is sleeping with other men and a lesbian is holding hands with another woman it has no effect on anyone else.

With Transgender however it does effect society - transitioning itself is often paid for on the NHS at a time the health service is on its knees there is a question as to should this be publicly funded.

Away from the financial side of things a trans persons friends and family have to watch someones change their entire identity forever which must be difficult even if they are overall happy for the person transitioning. Then you have wider society - employers, You, I, Lucinda etc who have to over look natural science and biology facts, have to be careful in what we say or do as not to offend someone unintentionally and be labelled a transphobe, for women as I said before there is the controversy of trans taking part in female sports/competitions, using shared bathrooms which for some do find uncomfortable.

So on that point Lobster I would agree completely that if a person transitioned using their own money, didnt care if someone called them Mr/Mrs, use of pronouns and if they had their own sports division/restrooms/changing rooms etc. then it would be of no one's business whatsoever however that isn't the case currently so I do think everyone has a right to have an input into the whole process and regulations regarding this - particularly the issue of teens being allowed to transition when most 16-18 years old dont know what day it is half the time never mind being able to make such a massive life changing decision that cant simply be reversed at the drop of a hat.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

That works two ways my friend yet its only ever a one way road with a lot of things in life.

Take the transgender topic - in the UK there are approx 220,000 people who identify as trans or non binary oot of a population of near 69 million people.

Now that other 68.78 million people are constantly told they have to listen to a group of 220k and respect what they wish to be called, known as, identify as etc. yet when have those people asked the 68.78 million people how they feel on the subject? be it trans competing in female competitions, using the opposite sexs toilets/changies etc.

Now my personal opinion on that particular issue is that I have no ill feeling towards trans folk or anyone for that matter- I judge people by their character and actions regardless of their colour, sex, gender whatever else however I do believe gender dysphoria is a mental disorder/illness yet we don't treat it as such and I think lowering the age of transitioning to 16 who lets be honest no 16 yr old has any real life experience, are neither physically or mentally mature, many wont have explored sex neither has their brain fully developed so for me its completely wrong and likely political pandering to LGBTQ pressure groups.

So my point here really is that Everyone's opinion is valid when we all live and contribute to a working society but in practice that isn't how things work in our supposed "democracy" When the masses are told what to say, think, do and act by the minority.

Who is constantly told? Again, head full
Of magic making up fantastical bull crap! I’ve never been told this crap, it just happens that I chose to respect what they wish to be called cos it doesn’t f******* matter

I’m still waiting your example of some extremism you keep mentioning btw

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Who is constantly told? Again, head full
Of magic making up fantastical bull crap! I’ve never been told this crap, it just happens that I chose to respect what they wish to be called cos it doesn’t f******* matter

I’m still waiting your example of some extremism you keep mentioning btw

But you dont speak for millions of people who have the same right to an opinion as you do...

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I think the issue with trans is that it shouldn't be lumped in with LGBTQ imo. As you say why should anyone care what another person does which I agree completely. If a gay person is sleeping with other men and a lesbian is holding hands with another woman it has no effect on anyone else.

With Transgender however it does effect society - transitioning itself is often paid for on the NHS at a time the health service is on its knees there is a question as to should this be publicly funded.

Away from the financial side of things a trans persons friends and family have to watch someones change their entire identity forever which must be difficult even if they are overall happy for the person transitioning. Then you have wider society - employers, You, I, Lucinda etc who have to over look natural science and biology facts, have to be careful in what we say or do as not to offend someone unintentionally and be labelled a transphobe, for women as I said before there is the controversy of trans taking part in female sports/competitions, using shared bathrooms which for some do find uncomfortable.

So on that point Lobster I would agree completely that if a person transitioned using their own money, didnt care if someone called them Mr/Mrs, use of pronouns and if they had their own sports division/restrooms/changing rooms etc. then it would be of no one's business whatsoever however that isn't the case currently so I do think everyone has a right to have an input into the whole process and regulations regarding this - particularly the issue of teens being allowed to transition when most 16-18 years old dont know what day it is half the time never mind being able to make such a massive life changing decision that cant simply be reversed at the drop of a hat.

Just no mate, stop hating, it’s sad

You can have all sorts of treatments on the nhs, that’s what it’s for, just cos you’re offended by this one doesn’t mean it should be excluded

Dinosaur

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

But you dont speak for millions of people who have the same right to an opinion as you do...

But who cares how some stranger wishes to be identified? I mean, think about something else, there’s plenty of actual bad stuff going on. It’s such a non-event unless you chose to find offence

 

[Lobster Johnson]

I think the issue with trans is that it shouldn't be lumped in with LGBTQ imo. As you say why should anyone care what another person does which I agree completely. If a gay person is sleeping with other men and a lesbian is holding hands with another woman it has no effect on anyone else.

With Transgender however it does effect society - transitioning itself is often paid for on the NHS at a time the health service is on its knees there is a question as to should this be publicly funded.

Away from the financial side of things a trans persons friends and family have to watch someones change their entire identity forever which must be difficult even if they are overall happy for the person transitioning. Then you have wider society - employers, You, I, Lucinda etc who have to over look natural science and biology facts, have to be careful in what we say or do as not to offend someone unintentionally and be labelled a transphobe, for women as I said before there is the controversy of trans taking part in female sports/competitions, using shared bathrooms which for some do find uncomfortable.

So on that point Lobster I would agree completely that if a person transitioned using their own money, didnt care if someone called them Mr/Mrs, use of pronouns and if they had their own sports division/restrooms/changing rooms etc. then it would be of no one's business whatsoever however that isn't the case currently so I do think everyone has a right to have an input into the whole process and regulations regarding this - particularly the issue of teens being allowed to transition when most 16-18 years old dont know what day it is half the time never mind being able to make such a massive life changing decision that cant simply be reversed at the drop of a hat.

You know what happens to approximately a 3rd of trans people whilst waiting an average of 8 years for reassignment surgery?

They kill themselves. But hey, at least no money gets hurt

 

[ForeverBlue92]

You know what happens to approximately a 3rd of trans people whilst waiting an average of 8 years for reassignment surgery?

They kill themselves. But hey, at least no money gets hurt

Suicide/mental health is a big problem in the trans community I agree.

And many unfortunately still suffer after gender reassignment.

Which raises the question are we really solving the root issue ?

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Suicide/mental health is a big problem in the trans community I agree.

And many unfortunately still suffer after gender reassignment.

Which raises the question are we really solving the root issue ?

Nice one mate, very compassionate

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Suicide/mental health is a big problem in the trans community I agree.

And many unfortunately still suffer after gender reassignment.

Which raises the question are we really solving the root issue ?

At least we are trying! People like you want the “issue” to just disappear

 

[ForeverBlue92]

At least we are trying! People like you want the “issue” to just disappear

Society has a mental health crisis at present time with limited service funding/numbers of specialists to support people on top of society in general and its governance/politicians stooped in immorality.

I think we as a society are failing a lot of people tbh and it'll only get worse as there is no clear direction/leadership any longer.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Society has a mental health crisis at present time with limited service funding/numbers of specialists to support people on top of society in general and its governance/politicians stooped in immorality.

I think we as a society are failing a lot of people tbh and it'll only get worse as there is no clear direction/leadership any longer.

That is a political failing issue, it’s not up to you who gets what support. Trans people are as entitled as any one else to nhs treatment

 

[ForeverBlue92]

That is a political failing issue, it’s not up to you who gets what support. Trans people are as entitled as any one else to nhs treatment

I agree in the current set up it would be wrong to deny a trans person treatment.

I do however think the NHS needs an overhaul in general on what types of treatment should be fully paid in particular things like cosmetic procedures in general, gender reassignment etc.

I have no problem with someone undergoing gender reassignment but it isn't the cure for gender dysphoria. Realistically someone should receive robust counselling and support from the point diagnosed by a GP up until age 25 (when the human brain is fully developed for most people on average).

At that point I think if a person is still struggling and treatment hasn't worked then gender reassignment should be offered in addition to continued therapy/counselling if necessary.

But aside from that I think we need to respect womens rights in having a separate sporting division and restrooms for trans women.