Current Affairs The next Tory (strong and stable) leader is Boris Johnson

[Jebus_lives]

Again, I don’t mean breaching COVID regulations, I mean actually criminal (as in arrest, interview, charge, court appearance and trial possibly).

Which are criminal offences. The Met might decide they aren't worthy of anything more than a FIxed Penalty Notice, but it's a criminal offence nevertheless.

They freely handed out massive fines elsewhere.

Perhaps perverting the course of justice, which would become indictable. But that's a terrible look from the Met perspective if a crime they initially refused to investigate, decided wasnt worth investigating, suddenly, based on the findings of a civil servant, become the foundation of prosecution.

 

[Jebus_lives]

@tsubaki perhaps in line with your thoughts

 

[tsubaki]

Which are criminal offences. The Met might decide they aren't worthy of anything more than a FIxed Penalty Notice, but it's a criminal offence nevertheless.

They freely handed out massive fines elsewhere.

Perhaps perverting the course of justice, which would become indictable. But that's a terrible look from the Met perspective if a crime they initially refused to investigate, decided wasnt worth investigating, suddenly, based on the findings of a civil servant, become the foundation of prosecution.

“A terrible look” is such a useless phrase, people either do bad things or they don’t. How they “look” is invariably “how the media cover them”.

In terms of this though, if there is a strong possibility of criminal court proceedings (which there isn’t with COVID regulations breaches) then it should be obvious to everyone that it would be very prejudicial to say “oh, and X and Y committed these criminal offences”.

For a start, Gray isn’t any kind of official investigator; nor would the people accused been given their rights or dealt with according to PACE and human rights law.

If that is what is happening then to me this both makes sense and seems would be the right thing to do.

If it isn’t what’s happening then people should be outraged.

 

[Jebus_lives]

“A terrible look” is such a useless phrase, people either do bad things or they don’t. How they “look” is invariably “how the media cover them”.

In terms of this though, if there is a strong possibility of criminal court proceedings (which there isn’t with COVID regulations breaches) then it should be obvious to everyone that it would be very prejudicial to say “oh, and X and Y committed these criminal offences”.

For a start, Gray isn’t any kind of official investigator; nor would the people accused been given their rights or dealt with according to PACE and human rights law.

If that is what is happening then to me this both makes sense and seems would be the right thing to do.

If it isn’t what’s happening then people should be outraged.

Reputational damage for organisations like the Met are huge. Moreover, there is great scope for public opinion to be swayed by virtue of how things are perceived - jury trials being an example.

Where organisations have to appear to operate without fear or favour and they appear not to, it's hugely damaging.

And on the part about Gray, it's even more baffling, and I would think would form a huge part of any legal defence, that the investigation was carried out by a civil servant and not the Met.

 

[TheSouthernBlue]

Reputational damage for organisations like the Met are huge. Moreover, there is great scope for public opinion to be swayed by virtue of how things are perceived - jury trials being an example.

Where organisations have to appear to operate without fear or favour and they appear not to, it's hugely damaging.

Any public service is only one catastrophic event away from being called hero’s.

For example, NHS staff were scrounging off the state in the majority of headlines in 2018 to early 2019, especially NHS bosses. They become pawns in the 2019 election, and then hero’s and clapped for during covid. Now back to beating them with a stick.

Fire service, headlines and implied they get to sleep on the job, didn’t deserve pay rises, then hero’s at Grenfell.

Met police, bunch of rapists/murderers/cover ups today. We are one terrorist attack on London away from calling them hero’s again.

The report will be released one day, on that day there will be a bigger headline coming out. It’s called having a good day to bury bad news. For example, IF Russia stepped one foot in Ukraine, then the report will be released within the hour, people will be more hooked on the Russians than they will be the report.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Any public service is only one catastrophic event away from being called hero’s.

For example, NHS staff were scrounging off the state in the majority of headlines in 2018 to early 2019, especially NHS bosses. They become pawns in the 2019 election, and then hero’s and clapped for during covid. Now back to beating them with a stick.

Fire service, headlines and implied they get to sleep on the job, didn’t deserve pay rises, then hero’s at Grenfell.

Met police, bunch of rapists/murderers/cover ups today. We are one terrorist attack on London away from calling them hero’s again.

The report will be released one day, on that day there will be a bigger headline coming out. It’s called having a good day to bury bad news. For example, IF Russia stepped one foot in Ukraine, then the report will be released within the hour, people will be more hooked on the Russians than they will be the report.

People disassociate the actions of 'heroes' from the rest of the organisation because there are by definition, exceptional.

Where wrongdoing happens, it becomes systematic because opportunities will be missed to prevent it happening and when they continually happen, it becomes a part of the public perception of the organisation.

The Met have suffered from the "institutionalised racism" tag since it was levelled at them and are now suffering from the "institutionalised misogyny" tag.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

In about 3 or 4 months time a minor civil servant will be charged with peverting the course of justice and that'll be as far as it goes.

A heavily redacted Sue Gray report will be punished and Johnson will get away with it again.

Usual suspects will claim he's exonerated.

In the long run the royal family will make sure he never gets a knighthood.

Was listening to an ex police commissioner yesterday, he was saying in reality the investigation by the Met should only take a couple of weeks because all the evidence is there for them from the Sue Gray report, we know though they’ll drag it out for months and months.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Was listening to an ex police commissioner yesterday, he was saying in reality the investigation by the Met should only take a couple of weeks because all the evidence is there for them from the Sue Gray report, we know though they’ll drag it out for months and months.

They've made themselves look inept or corrupt.

 

[tsubaki]

Reputational damage for organisations like the Met are huge. Moreover, there is great scope for public opinion to be swayed by virtue of how things are perceived - jury trials being an example.

Where organisations have to appear to operate without fear or favour and they appear not to, it's hugely damaging.

And on the part about Gray, it's even more baffling, and I would think would form a huge part of any legal defence, that the investigation was carried out by a civil servant and not the Met.

People don’t perceive things directly themselves though; as should be obvious now most peoples information is filtered, sorted and in many cases tailored for them.

How things look is much more important than how things are (edit) which is the reverse of how it should be.

As I’ve said if the Met are collaborating with the government to quiet this down than it really is a disgrace; however there are alternatives to that “look” where doing what they’ve done is legally and morally the right thing to do.

 

[Jebus_lives]

People don’t perceive things directly themselves though; as should be obvious now most peoples information is filtered, sorted and in many cases tailored for them.

How things look is much more important than how things are.

As I’ve said if the Met are collaborating with the government to quiet this down than it really is a disgrace; however there are alternatives to that “look” where doing what they’ve done is legally and morally the right thing to do.

Does that not completely contradict your earlier point about 'terrible looks'

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

They've made themselves look inept or corrupt.

Maybe it’s just me but I just found it all a bit to ‘convenient’ for Boris that the day before Sue Gray is due to submit her report the police decide to investigate, they then request that Sue Gray make ‘minimal references’ in her report.

The problem for the Met is that if they clear Boris of any wrongdoing even though all the evidence is there that he broke the law then people will see it for what it is, a whitewash.

 

[tsubaki]

Does that not completely contradict your earlier point about 'terrible looks'

Sorry I’ve edited that now, I forgot the important bit.

 

[summerisle]

Isn't it wonderful that we've now taken back control from the corrupt and unaccountable EU. It stinks to high heaven.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Excellent that the Met are now casting doubt on full publication of Sue Gray report, further piddling away the credibility of Office prime minister and the Met police. A true levelling in full swing.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Maybe it’s just me but I just found it all a bit to ‘convenient’ for Boris that the day before Sue Gray is due to submit her report the police decide to investigate, they then request that Sue Gray make ‘minimal references’ in her report.

The problem for the Met is that if they clear Boris of any wrongdoing even though all the evidence is there that he broke the law then people will see it for what it is, a whitewash.

They either investigate properly - in which case the Tories rightly ask why they didn't investigate earlier and it's just 'politically/media driven' or they don't and it's conspiracy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Cressida Dick ending up being the one to lose her job.

Edit: probably Sue Gray too.