The Moyes Era

[Neiler]

We could end up in the Champions League without him too Neiler. Crystal balls and all that...

Didnt we with him mate, i think its important to live in the real world, very few clubs have or would survive on our budget in the PL - unless something very special was in place - that David Moyes. We need him more then he needs us.

The fact that there is a false sense of expectation amongst the fans and mud is being slung at him is all built on expectations he created - to read some of the opinions in this thread you would think he was working without constraint - truth is we should have been relegated beards ago with our budget and prob would have been without him.

 

[harry]

I think we wouldnt even get close myself, rationally with our budget we would be a championship club for me, how many clubs would survive in the PL with a budget of hardly five mill a year on players. Currently Everton need Moyes more then Moyes needs Everton.

I may have a different opinion if we had 25 mill a year to drop on the team, but real world stuff, clubs with better budgets then us have gone down.

I might be wrong here but didn't somebody in another thread say we had the eighth biggest wage bill in the league. this would suggest we have better player than more than half the other teams. spreading out the net spend is inaccurate as half of our sell figure came from two players, this gave us chance to bring in 3 or 4 quality players and tempt them with good wages. looking at the net spend as a reason for success of failure is difficult because there are so many other factors. It would be better to look at the players we have in the squad at presant and not what has been spent, to assess where we would finish.

 

[harry]

Didnt we with him mate, i think its important to live in the real world, very few clubs have or would survive on our budget in the PL - unless something very special was in place - that David Moyes. We need him more then he needs us.

I can't agree with this mate, its sad that fans think this.

 

[Neiler]

I might be wrong here but didn't somebody in another thread say we had the eighth biggest wage bill in the league. this would suggest we have better player than more than half the other teams. spreading out the net spend is inaccurate as half of our sell figure came from two players, this gave us chance to bring in 3 or 4 quality players and tempt them with good wages. looking at the net spend as a reason for success of failure is difficult because there are so many other factors. It would be better to look at the players we have in the squad at presant and not what has been spent, to assess where we would finish.

But our wage to turnover ration is compariable with the best in the league. You also have to put it into real world context, Arteta, Pienaar, Mofro, Baines, Jags etc were prob on about 20k a week when they first came and went on to earn multiples - Moyes improves them, turns them into coverted international players and if they prove it we will pay them - surely thats good management from a coaching, player seledtion, man management, moral and buisness point of view.

 

[Neiler]

[/B]I can't agree with this mate, its sad that fans think this.

Well its opinion of course mate, i dont think its necessarily only us either, the old mantra that "no one is bigger then the club" is redundent for me - its a fish hook line trotted out by pundits, talksport and canny club officals who have to communicate with fans, i look around most clubs and think where would they be without ..............whoever!

 

[harry]

But our wage to turnover ration is compariable with the best in the league. You also have to put it into real world context, Arteta, Pienaar, Mofro, Baines, Jags etc were prob on about 20k a week when they first came and went on to earn multiples - Moyes improves them, turns them into coverted international players and if they prove it we will pay them - surely thats good management from a coaching, player seledtion, man management, moral and buisness point of view.

Just to get back to the relegation, forget about the net spend. If we started next season with the squad of players we have now and a new manager, do you think we would get relegated?

 

[Neiler]

Just to get back to the relegation, forget about the net spend. If we started next season with the squad of players we have now and a new manager, do you think we would get relegated?

But thats ignoring my previous point mate that you made about the wage bill and net spend - i think its only fair to acknowledge that.

To be honest i think we would be like Villa - this season - hovering and flirting a little with relegation. Our current squad i would say is lowish in terms of quality as comparitiable to previous seasons, not saying our players are gash but games are won and lost on individual quality - we lack that. Im not getting to carried away with our improvement since Jan, we have shed a lot of numbers in recent years, while we have a lot of players on loan who may not be here next year, if you take them out and add another year and understand that Cahill, Neville, Distin have about two years left - i would say we would be relegated in two maybe three seasons.

Just my own opinion of course.

 

[Elong]

Didnt we with him mate, i think its important to live in the real world, very few clubs have or would survive on our budget in the PL - unless something very special was in place - that David Moyes. We need him more then he needs us.

The fact that there is a false sense of expectation amongst the fans and mud is being slung at him is all built on expectations he created - to read some of the opinions in this thread you would think he was working without constraint - truth is we should have been relegated beards ago with our budget and prob would have been without him.

Well I don't believe we should have been relegated beards ago with the team we have we should be aiming for Europe, there's some world class in our lineup, credit to Moyes for that.

Undoubtedly he's hamstrung by our board and investment (or lack of), I think he's a good manager.

It's always going to be Nil Satis Nisi Optimum for me though mate, as unrealistic as we all know it is!

 

[harry]

But thats ignoring my previous point mate that you made about the wage bill and net spend - i think its only fair to acknowledge that.

To be honest i think we would be like Villa - this season - hovering and flirting a little with it, our current squad i would say is lowish in terms of quality as comparitiable to previous seasons, not saying our players are gash but games are won and lost on individual quality - we lack that. Im not getting to carried away with our improvement since Jan, we have shed a lot of numbers in recent years, while we have a lot of players on loan who may not be here next year, if you take them out and add another year and understand that Cahill, Neville, Distin have about two years left - i would say we would be relegated in two maybe three seasons.

Just my own opinion of course.

If you look at our league position to date, we are 7th. 10pts behind 6th and 5 pts above 14th. so we could finish anywhere between 7th and 14th.

Our stats are P33, W13, D8, L12, GD+4 in my opinion i don't think another manager will do any worse with the squad of players we have. But he might do better, and he might do it playing an entertaining style of football.

The problem i have is not the league position its how we play, its awfull mate, you get up the morning of the match and you know what he's going to do and the tactics we are going to play. its fcuking depressing mate. ive got to the point were i am sat at the match with my head in my hands nearly in tears with boredom. The style of football he plays is killing the crowds.

In my opinion it can't get any worse.

Fcukinghell i opened up abit then.

 

[fozzy]

Followed by................

oh you meant did we remember any near misses apart from the one under moyes oh ok then!

 

[Khalekan]

Well, that was a seven day wonder.

No. Less.

Three full days have elapsed since Wembley and all is well in the wonderful world of Moyes F.C. again.

The club which has spent more seasons in the top flight of their country's league than any other team in the world would be screwed and wind up relegation certainties if the Moyesiah was to succumb to one of the myriad offers he received to manage elsewhere.

Saturday, mot to mention Anfield in March, never happened.....the memory has been expunged from those for whom there is not one other manager in the entire universe whom could keep the Grand Old Team in the dizzy heights of mid table in the EPL.

The Kopites know more about our club than many thousands of us do.

Because they, like the In Moyes We Trust brigade, are ecstatic at the prospect of "ten more years".

Roll on January next year when the season starts in earnest for us.

 

[Degs62]

The Moyes era should have ended this week, if we had a chairman with balls he would have been sacked for the dismal display the team he fielded put on.

OK he kept us in the Premier league and we are 'the best of the rest' and all that, but thinking that's good is settling for mediocrity. We are Everton, we are proud, we want a Manager who will field a side that will always go out to win and is willing to die for the Royal Blue.

**** Moyes and **** Kenwright.

 

[Neiler]

If you look at our league position to date, we are 7th. 10pts behind 6th and 5 pts above 14th. so we could finish anywhere between 7th and 14th.

Our stats are P33, W13, D8, L12, GD+4 in my opinion i don't think another manager will do any worse with the squad of players we have. But he might do better, and he might do it playing an entertaining style of football.

The problem i have is not the league position its how we play, its awfull mate, you get up the morning of the match and you know what he's going to do and the tactics we are going to play. its fcuking depressing mate. ive got to the point were i am sat at the match with my head in my hands nearly in tears with boredom. The style of football he plays is killing the crowds.

In my opinion it can't get any worse.

Fcukinghell i opened up abit then.

Its hard to disagree on our style, but has been marginally better of late.

Again for me, it comes down to resources and of the pitch stuff - its the constraints of the job that force the descions rather then otherwise, honestly if we played like Swansea and had had the same point total people would be up in arms. You cant take Arteta and Pienaar out of your team not replace them and expect not to play percentage football. This is my point really, managing Everton is like constantly trying to turn a pigs ear into a sows purse. Make no mistake we have no right even to be anywhere near seventh, or close to a cup final, i mean that. Thats not saying i lack ambition or Everton arent a big club in terms of past success, fanbase etc. I would expect a club with our budget to be fighting relegation every season, the fact we are not is David Moyes. The problem with Everton is more systemic, its goes up rather then down.

I have a suspicion if Moyes got the Spurs job, he may play is a very different way to be honest. Im not one who buys into the vouge compleatly of Rodgers and Martinez, i think there is context to their success - if you could call it that. I think if you said to either of them over the next ten years you can have the same success Everton have had over ten years with your clubs both would jump at it.

 

[micknick]

I just find it ridiculous that people would risk a new manager based on us probably spending next to nothing again.

Well done if Martinez keeps Wigan up by the skin of their teeth and good on Brendan Rodgers- Swansea will be relegated next in my opinion and Wigan will be down there again.

 

[Philw]

Fair enough. As I said I don't agree -- as much as Distin might dislike it, as much as NSNO types might be horrified, a club with our resources could very easily get relegated with a wrong choice at manager -- I do respect the fact that you're saying that. Out of interest, what do you think the odds are that BK would find us a manager who could do better? I'd accept "better" as being defined as either better in the league, winning a Cup, or even as being in no danger of relegation (13th spot up) but playing more attractive football more consistently. LOL ... the actual event itself tends to inspire me more than the overrated movie but kudos on the attempt ... mental. Sure thing. I think it's difficult to make it work if they're too different but a new voice at least providing the ideas for DM to accept or dismiss might help.

Honestly? No idea. But he found Moyes didn't he? I don't know enough about football outside of EFC and the EPL to suggest names, but I'd like to think that if it came to it BK would find a decent replacement out there....

I would first like to clarify that I do not think everton will go down like all disgraceful media claim.
But I do think its a bit ridiculous that some fans want him out. Football's an emotional game, when things don't go your way, you tend to forget the bigger picture.

For the person saying "they would rather risk relegation than have the whole start **** and lose cup finals and derbies"
I honestly thing that's easier said. Would you honestly want to be in a position like west ham? Blackburn?
I can almost guarantee you would regret that statement and lick moyes' arse begging him to come back.

...

But I would say moyes has been successful. You've been in europe, you've been to wembly and that's far more than most fans can claim...

Not a chance. I've lived through it all before. If a change, and even relegation dog fights are what it takes for this club to get back to the top of the table then I am willing to handle that... As for the bigger picture? The bigger picture is that Moyes has done wonders for the club, moving us from where we were to where we are now, but the club has plateaued, stagnated, and I don't see how we can move forwards at the moment. Obviously a lot of that isn't Moyes fault, except in that he has rasied expectations so high, but at the same time for the last 3 years he has failed to make the most of the squad and the opportunities that he has had. IMO it is time for a change, to see if someone else can do a better job with the squad that Moyes has put together so well. So I am hugely thankful to him, and all he has done for the club, and would even be happy to see him stay on in some capacity, but he's had his two 'five year plans', so now it's time to say goodbye.

Funny, I remember when Charlton were in the Prem and their fans were tired of finishing mid table. One media type who was a Charlton fan, said that other supporters had told them they'd rather be involved in a relegation battle than just play out the string in mid table every year. Well they got it didn't they?

I know people say this all the time, only to be proved wrong, but honestly, we're too good for that. (Yes, I know)

is it moyes fault if we have lazy players ??

Um, yes. Pretty sure he bought most of them???

Don't forget moyes has had us down there aswell.

Followed by................

Moyes used to have good season/bad season... now its good half-season/bad half season!

I think we wouldnt even get close myself, rationally with our budget we would be a championship club for me, how many clubs would survive in the PL with a budget of hardly five mill a year on players. Currently Everton need Moyes more then Moyes needs Everton.

I may have a different opinion if we had 25 mill a year to drop on the team, but real world stuff, clubs with better budgets then us have gone down.

Who was it posted all those links to team spending tables the other day? One of them was only a few mil more than us over a ten year period didn't they?