Current Affairs The Landmarks of Slavery;

[ForeverBlue92]

All it takes is one person to make one wrong move on either side (they are all human) and there would be absolute bedlam.

If someone on the march does not "behave themselves" then what happens next? What do the army do? We know what happens and then rightly or wrongly we are looking at a nation who stops protests about racial equality with brute force.

I don't think you have thought this through very well if I am being honest.

Well I would respect those marching who were behaving to kick said trouble causer out or if the army did restrain said trouble causer for the others not to go wading in / throwing bricks etc. And escalating the situation.

If they want to act like adults then they need to know actions have consequences.

We wouldn't accept some bloke lobbing bricks at people in the middle of Liverpool One so why do we accept it at a demo/march?

 

[Papa Shango]

Well I would respect those marching who were behaving to kick said trouble causer out or if the army did restrain said trouble causer for the others not to go wading in / throwing bricks etc. And escalating the situation.

If they want to act like adults then they need to know actions have consequences.

We wouldn't accept some bloke lobbing bricks at people in the middle of Liverpool One so why do we accept it at a demo/march?

Who accepts it?

 

[Wizard]

Sorry no, that’s not the point I was making at all.

I was saying that simply voting on such issues isn’t the answer because we are talking about the feelings of a minority.

If you think about representation in this country. Ethnic minorities represent about 30% of the population. They need allies just to be heard. Just to be represented.

simply voting on the issue isn’t enough. Because the vast majority of the population aren’t the ones who are feeling oppressed.

The Colston statue doesn’t affect me. It doesn’t make me feel oppressed. But I wasn’t subject to slavery. I’ve never been subject to racism. I can empathise though and if people feel so strongly about it then I’m sure there are other people to celebrate instead of him.

the point was more a simple vote doesn’t necessarily mean the minority are heard. And right now they are asking for us to listen to their experience.

it’s not about the statues for them. The statues are just a beacon. And example. It’s about more than that.

anyway sorry if I wasn’t clear. It wasn’t a direct assault on democracy. More that certain things can’t be solved by a democratic vote.

It's actually only 14% (as of the 2011 census) which makes it even more difficult.

 

[dead_soft]

Well I would respect those marching who were behaving to kick said trouble causer out or if the army did restrain said trouble causer for the others not to go wading in / throwing bricks etc. And escalating the situation.

If they want to act like adults then they need to know actions have consequences.

We wouldn't accept some bloke lobbing bricks at people in the middle of Liverpool One so why do we accept it at a demo/march?

Logic is ace, here. 'I hate violence so much, it makes me want too rein down violence on those who do it' - reckon this is the perfect time for Johnson's water canons to come back out too?

 

[dead_soft]

Sorry to geg in lads. Mill so you are up for mob rule then? Democracy and Britain abolished slavery? I'm not trying to be funny or anything mate but I'm genuinely confused. Could be me misunderstanding though?

You have no understanding of democracy or the history of this country if you think all it is is voting in elections. Direct action is one of many available and useful tools in a functioning democracy

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Only if those on the marches didn't behave themselves same as with the police.

You may want to read up on Bloody Sunday.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

You may want to read up on Bloody Sunday.

Tbf thats like saying an officer can never arrest someone again after someone dies in police custody.

This is unprecedented times- thousands dying of a killer virus, a bumbling PM, police kneeling whilst colleagues are getting assaulted, thousands ignoring social distancing and hundreds of authoritarians destroying property up and down the country all whilst talk of clashes between BLM & far right this weekend.

If ever there was a case for the army being put on the streets now is that time.

 

[dead_soft]

Tbf thats like saying an officer can never arrest someone again after someone dies in police custody.

This is unprecedented times- thousands dying of a killer virus, a bumbling PM, police kneeling whilst colleagues are getting assaulted, thousands ignoring social distancing and hundreds of authoritarians destroying property up and down the country all whilst talk of clashes between BLM & far right this weekend.

If ever there was a case for the army being put on the streets now is that time.

Is it well known that mobilising an army against your own citizens is the perfect way to deescalate tensions and troubles?

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Tbf thats like saying an officer can never arrest someone again after someone dies in police custody.

This is unprecedented times- thousands dying of a killer virus, a bumbling PM, police kneeling whilst colleagues are getting assaulted, thousands ignoring social distancing and hundreds of authoritarians destroying property up and down the country all whilst talk of clashes between BLM & far right this weekend.

If ever there was a case for the army being put on the streets now is that time.

I don't think the potential for unrest which hasn't yet manifested is as serious as the reasons the army were called into Northern Ireland (Ostensibly to protect the Catholic community... That went well).

Putting armed soldiers up against their fellow citizens "just in case" is not a sensible plan.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I don't think the potential for unrest which hasn't yet manifested is as serious as the reasons the army were called into Northern Ireland (Ostensibly to protect the Catholic community... That went well).

Putting armed soldiers up against their fellow citizens "just in case" is not a sensible plan.

I know we wont do it - but I guarantee they'll be hell on over the weekend alongside further monuments destroyed, innocent people/officers attacked and personal property destroyed.

Welcome to the new Britain - no democracy here just mob rule.

 

[atypicalusername]

You have no understanding of democracy or the history of this country if you think all it is is voting in elections. Direct action is one of many available and useful tools in a functioning democracy

You mean protests and getting enough signatures for an issue to be raised in parliament? I dont see how destruction of statues without going through the proper channels is democratic at all mate. I'm sorry but I disagree with you. I believe a member of got brought up the fact that in Bristol they had a vote if the statue should go and apparently 55% said no it should stay. I dont take any offence to anything you've said mate but I think your idea of democratic and mine don't seem to be in line. Is it regional warlords is more what you have in mind?

 

[dead_soft]

You mean protests and getting enough signatures for an issue to be raised in parliament? I dont see how destruction of statues without going through the proper channels is democratic at all mate. I'm sorry but I disagree with you. I believe a member of got brought up the fact that in Bristol they had a vote if the statue should go and apparently 55% said no it should stay. I dont take any offence to anything you've said mate but I think your idea of democratic and mine don't seem to be in line. Is it regional warlords is more what you have in mind?

It's not about an idea, it's about what forms democracy in Britain takes on.

Poll Tax Riots
Peterloo Massacre
Iraq War March
Lancashire mill workers refusing to use slave cotton
Strangeways Prison Riots

all examples of direct action that changed the shape of the country

 

[atypicalusername]

Sorry no, that’s not the point I was making at all.

I was saying that simply voting on such issues isn’t the answer because we are talking about the feelings of a minority.

If you think about representation in this country. Ethnic minorities represent about 30% of the population. They need allies just to be heard. Just to be represented.

simply voting on the issue isn’t enough. Because the vast majority of the population aren’t the ones who are feeling oppressed.

The Colston statue doesn’t affect me. It doesn’t make me feel oppressed. But I wasn’t subject to slavery. I’ve never been subject to racism. I can empathise though and if people feel so strongly about it then I’m sure there are other people to celebrate instead of him.

the point was more a simple vote doesn’t necessarily mean the minority are heard. And right now they are asking for us to listen to their experience.

it’s not about the statues for them. The statues are just a beacon. And example. It’s about more than that.

anyway sorry if I wasn’t clear. It wasn’t a direct assault on democracy. More that certain things can’t be solved by a democratic vote.

Hi mate, thanks for taking the time to clear it up because I was a bit confused. I hear what you are saying and nobody says democracy is perfect because minority and pressure groups can struggle to convince the majority to vote with them as you have said. Its unfortunately a disadvantage of the fairest system available up until this point for minority groups. In some ways it's a good thing though because it can prevent harmful and radical ideologies from gaining momentum(not saying that for any active moments right now just saying). Its frustrating for people because things like Brexit happen and you can feel your voice isn't heard. However it comes down to respect for your fellow countrymen that you concede to democracy. Some of the actions being taken are being given a lot of leeway for what the actions are. Not saying the statues should be up, just saying that it's kind of sickening to see such a disregard for democratic process despite acknowledging that it can be frustrating. Thanks again for clearing it up mate and please correct me if I've misunderstood anything you wrote.

 

[atypicalusername]

It's not about an idea, it's about what forms democracy in Britain takes on.

Poll Tax Riots
Peterloo Massacre
Iraq War March
Lancashire mill workers refusing to use slave cotton
Strangeways Prison Riots

all examples of direct action that changed the shape of the country

I know its redundant as everything goes to the nazis for hyperbole but the beer hall putsch also changed the shape of that country. It's a slippery slope to go down and surely you must acknowledge that? Maybe we just see it differently though mate?

 

[Ihaters]

Ultimately, pulling down a statue regardless of meaning is vandalism and people doing it are criminals. Also Churches, Mosques and indeed most large historic buildings have some significance to slavery. Is it all going? Or just where there are enough bellends to make it happen outside the law?. My guess is the second one.

You don't want something in your area, get it removed through appropriate channels. Also why didn't it bother you before? Racism has been around for thousands of years. Why now?
There are rules in place that are being ignored, and doing so in large groups in this time is basically saying you would smash stuff up than save lives and help stop the covid virus that has this country on it's knees.