Current Affairs The Landmarks of Slavery;

[Billy Dean]

I never did, I simply asked without google how would know his name? The man who directly caused WW1 and by doing so indirectly caused WW2.

You did compare them. Lots of people know his name and the contexts are wildly different. And he didn’t “directly” cause WWI anyway, that incident didn’t occur in a vacuum. Not that that has anything to do with BLM anyway

 

[dead_soft]

Not changing their minds; just, to be blunt, less arsed.

Im telling you mate that the vast majority of people in this country will meet the suggestion of tearing down statues of Nelson and Churchill with disdain, and because the BLM movement is associated with that call then that disdain will be associated with them.

Look at the reaction whenever PETA say something stupid about animals - the public roll their eyes, even if the cause is at its heart a pretty noble one.

But I'm not sure what the end result of that is. Do you think there would be more veggies in the country if PETA had been less aggressive? Do you think people are more likely to be racist because they think, wrongly, that BLM is violent?

 

[ForeverBlue92]

It's not something that's going to be obvious.

Think of it this way - why would a "normal" person be enthused about a cause if the immediate net result is chaos?

Strangely enough, they had the win on this pretty much immediately. Everyone in their right mind looked at the murder of George Floyd and thought "that's bang out of order, can't be allowed to continue that" and the initial protests had 100% non-racist support - but they've put that progress at risk with the nonsense after it. So now it's "that murder was terrible but if supporting change means a load of bells causing criminal damage in the streets then nah" that is in danger of being the ultimate takeaway from it.

Again, I know people will disagree with that because they can't see things from different angles. Can't help that.

Spot on - its the equivalent of going out on a 1st date, having a great time before being told they love you and getting pushed away by them being way too full on.

The Left have a habit of this - they mean well but ultimately dont know when to stop with their do goodery til the point they distort their original message and push away the regular joe.

I spoke to my ma on the phone before the protests about the murder/protest talks and she was fully in agreement for it/was disgusted at what had happened - fast forward post protests and all the talk of taking down statues and pyramids and she said "I don't know why they need to mess around with statues that tell a story of history good or bad"

That will be literally the response of the silent majority in this country.

Folk like @dead_soft cant and will never see that as he is blinded by his left wing politics to the extent that he believes there is only one path to equality and anyone who disagrees with that path is a bigot, racist, ostrich, gammon etc. When the reality is plenty agree and want change/equality - but we dont agree on the path the movement has/is taking!

 

[Tubey]

But I'm not sure what the end result of that is. Do you think there would be more veggies in the country if PETA had been less aggressive? Do you think people are more likely to be racist because they think, wrongly, that BLM is violent?

I don't think PETA have made a blind bit of difference on vegetarianism. And no, not more likely to be racist; just less likely to support anti-racism, because in their minds they associate that cause with chaos and they can't be arsed with it.

 

[dead_soft]

Spot on - its the equivalent of going out on a 1st date, having a great time before being told they love you and getting pushed away by them being way too full on.

The Left have a habit of this - they mean well but ultimately dont know when to stop with their do goodery til the point they distort their original message and push away the regular joe.

I spoke to my ma on the phone before the protests about the murder/protest talks and she was fully in agreement for it/was disgusted at what had happened - fast forward post protests and all this daft talk of taking down statues and pyramids and she said "I don't know why they need to mess around with statues that tell a story of history good or bad"

That will be literally the response of the silent majority in this country.

Folk like @dead_soft cant and will never see that as he is blinded by his left wing politics too the extent that he believes there is only one path to equality and anyone who disagrees with that path is a bigot, racist, ostrich, gammon etc. When the reality is plenty agree and want change/equality - but we dont agree on the path the movement has/is taking!

Have I ever called anyone a bigot, racist, ostrich, or gammon?

It's quite an interesting argument to say that people should stop 'do goody' should they 'do baddery' instead?

 

[dead_soft]

I don't think PETA have made a blind bit of difference on vegetarianism. And no, not more likely to be racist; just less likely to support anti-racism, because in their minds they associate that cause with chaos and they can't be arsed with it.

So, the worst case scenario would be that people who probably weren't arsed in the first place are now still not arsed? Seems an okay punt to take

 

[Lanolin]

How about white people just STFU and listen? Let BAME people have a proper voice and stop telling them how to think. Let them choose and erect their monuments to their historic figures. Have more BAME curated museums, galleries etc. Recognise their history as told by them, give it a place in our public life and our schooling. White people give them the funds to do these things as we're never going to pay reparations and just shut up for once and let them do it for themselves.

I agree to a point but it’s important to point out that ‘they’ aren’t a hive mind. People from ethnic minorities don’t all feel the same way about things, so it’s not not quite as simple as you make out.

The other point is that the descendants of slaves are not the only people who have ever been wronged in history. I’m not talking about point scoring a is worse than b thing here, it’s just the same question as has been posed throughout - where do you draw the line? Do Sikhs get to choose some monuments too? Irish? Women? The working class? Are we suggesting that everybody who has ever been oppressed now gets to get together and make decisions on what needs to happen in a national level? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but how will it work?

 

[Tubey]

So, the worst case scenario would be that people who probably weren't arsed in the first place are now still not arsed? Seems an okay punt to take

So how do you get change then? Tear down statues? Riot?

Because all that happens is you get no widespread societal support, the hard right are empowered and you have Tommy Robinson vs. Antifa in competing bellend competitions whilst the message of BLM is totally swamped out of existence.

Bigger picture is important. All these politicians and figureheads outraged at Floyd's death, ready to take action, but three months from now they can't as they'll be seen as bending a knee to anarchist thugs wanting to tear down statues of national heroes and bricking the police.

 

[dead_soft]

So how do you get change then? Tear down statues? Riot?

Because all that happens is you get no widespread societal support, the hard right are empowered and you have Tommy Robinson vs. Antifa in competing bellend competitions whilst the message of BLM is totally swamped out of existence.

Bigger picture is important. All these politicians and figureheads outraged at Floyd's death, ready to take action, but three months from now they can't as they'll be seen as bending a knee to anarchist thugs wanting to tear down statues of national heroes and bricking the police.

It seems the oddest protest to suggest that there isn't societal support for. Both major political parties have said they support BLM, every football club seems to support them, it might all be PR, but it seems there is a lot of support for BLM, to the extent that statues have been removed by councils because of it. It doesn't;'t seem being mean to some statues has lost them much support

 

[Tubey]

It seems the oddest protest to suggest that there isn't societal support for. Both major political parties have said they support BLM, every football club seems to support them, it might all be PR, but it seems there is a lot of support for BLM, to the extent that statues have been removed by councils because of it. It doesn't;'t seem being mean to some statues has lost them much support

Come back to me three months from now after sustained riots and statues being torn down etc. and tell me which way the wind is then. Because the very moment it's no longer politically expedient to do so, those pretty words are kicked into the long grass.

As I've said, BLM had the win. They still have it now. But they need to back away and let it play out and not try and take the extra mile when it's totally unnecessary and will almost certainly be counter productive.

 

[Lanolin]

So, the worst case scenario would be that people who probably weren't arsed in the first place are now still not arsed? Seems an okay punt to take

Not sure if you’re being deliberately obtuse or just a bit dense, but that clearly isn’t what he’s saying.

You’re looking at it with an ‘if you’re not with us you’re against us’ attitude. That’s absolutely fine, and seemingly quite normal at the moment, but it isn’t how the majority of the population will see it. Popular support is important for causes, turning people away from your cause is rarely a good move if you want to get things done. The PETA analogy is a good one I think. I mentioned earlier that I’m vegan, and every time it comes up you get that ‘here we go’ eye roll because people think you’re going to give them a guilt trip.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Not changing their minds; just, to be blunt, less arsed.

Im telling you mate that the vast majority of people in this country will meet the suggestion of tearing down statues of Nelson and Churchill with disdain, and because the BLM movement is associated with that call then that disdain will be associated with them.

Look at the reaction whenever PETA say something stupid about animals - the public roll their eyes, even if the cause is at its heart a pretty noble one.

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | TV and Radio | Churchill voted greatest Briton

news.bbc.co.uk

 

[dead_soft]

Come back to me three months from now after sustained riots and statues being torn down etc. and tell me which way the wind is then. Because the very moment it's no longer politically expedient to do so, those pretty words are kicked into the long grass.

As I've said, BLM had the win. They still have it now. But they need to back away and let it play out and not try and take the extra mile when it's totally unnecessary and will almost certainly be counter productive.

are there going to be three months of riots? Where has that come from?

Maybe I’ve just got more faith in people that they aren’t so easily swayed that they become racist because people tore down a statue they don’t like

 

[Tubey]

are there going to be three months of riots? Where has that come from?

Maybe I’ve just got more faith in people that they aren’t so easily swayed that they become racist because people tore down a statue they don’t like

Ive just literally told you they won't become racist... They'll just be less arsed about anti racism.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

Ive just literally told you they won't become racist... They'll just be less arsed about anti racism.

You will find some politicians also using the BLM movement as a kind of political currency. This too will do the movement no favours.