Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Tree13]

Just like to congratulate all on a decent thread that hasn't descended into vitriol and personal insults, a pleasure to read.

Seconded. We will never get anywhere as a society if we refuse to listen to each other.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Not sure i totally agree mate, there are lots on here who vote tory who are gloating and as ive had said to me, they cant wait to see my tears when labour is effectively destroyed as an opposition.


I hate the sneering tories, hate everything they stand for, and they are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of getting a landslide make no mistake.

Come on mate. Like you wouldn't be glotting at the prospect of flattening the Conservatives given the chance. Lots of decent Conservative voters are just reacting to being called the devil's spawn by Labour supporters who frankly put voters like myself well off with the venom that gets shouted at anyone who dares to disagree with the glorious leader or the party itself on any issue.

 

[Tree13]

Exactly, it affecting the entire world, starting with the sub prime mortgage scandal in america. But as usual, the tories blamed labour for it. Although I have to admit it made me angry that Labour were very weak at trying to argue against it, to me they just accepted it was their fault when it wasnt.

Whilst Labour cannot be held responsible for the global crash, it is inherently reasonable to judge them on the actions they took, or failed to take, when handling the country's finances during that period. They did a LOT wrong, to the point that even now our national debt continues to rise even as the current government is still trying to reverse our annual fiscal deficit.

 

[ashwuk76]

Come on mate. Like you wouldn't be glotting at the prospect of flattening the Conservatives given the chance. Lots of decent Conservative voters are just reacting to being called the devil's spawn by Labour supporters who frankly put voters like myself well off with the venom that gets shouted at anyone who dares to disagree with the glorious leader or the party itself on any issue.

Not that you would believe me, but no I wouldn't.
The problem is mate, tory policies are damaging society and killing people, I just dont understand why people are comfortable with that. We have built up a lot of protections being in Europe, that when Brexit happens, will disappear. The tories will mold this country in their image, which I am afraid will not be good for society or the country. We should be focusing on helping those less fortunate, and building an inclusive society, the tories wont deliver that im afraid as all they care about is themselves.

 

[ashwuk76]

Whilst Labour cannot be held responsible for the global crash, it is inherently reasonable to judge them on the actions they took, or failed to take, when handling the country's finances during that period. They did a LOT wrong, to the point that even now our national debt continues to rise even as the current government is still trying to reverse our annual fiscal deficit.

What in your opinion did they do wrong then?

Yes the national debt level is rising, but they wont be honest about that. Instead of cutting services and not trying to rebuild the economy, that is what is doing the most damage. Make people want to spend again, build affordable homes, make good and services affordable, create jobs, that is the way to get more income into the taxes. Go after tax avoiders more, and i mean the big corporations, they evade billions a year in tax, that would help.

 

[Tree13]

Thank you for replying to my post, I don't have much time available right now so this might sound a little rushed.

The leadership of the party has expressed very clearly that only the rich who earn above £70,000 a year will face any sort of tax increase - that'll provide the financial basis for a mixed-market economy which should bring back vital high-paid high-skilled industrial jobs that our country desperately needs.

I'm not Diane Abbott's biggest fan, but it's really unfortunate that good policy (20,000 more police on the street) has been overshadowed by a momentarily lapse in concentration.

I'm also not trying to "convert" people here, I hope you understand - I'm just trying to give an alternative viewpoint on the matter.

I don't feel like you've attempted to convert anyone pal. You're offering your point of view in an eloquent and reasonable manner. It's been a refreshing change to have this sort of conversation on here without it descending into the usual bile flying back and forth!

Agree with you re the policy of increasing Police numbers... have the details of this proposal been published? Are we talking about more actual full-time Constables, or will it be more of Blair's useless PCSOs?

The issue re taxation is two-fold: the way in which the money is spent matters every bit as much as the rate of taxation by which it is collected.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Not that you would believe me, but no I wouldn't.
The problem is mate, tory policies are damaging society and killing people, I just dont understand why people are comfortable with that. We have built up a lot of protections being in Europe, that when Brexit happens, will disappear. The tories will mold this country in their image, which I am afraid will not be good for society or the country. We should be focusing on helping those less fortunate, and building an inclusive society, the tories wont deliver that im afraid as all they care about is themselves.

How do you know this mate? You cant KNOW it will happen, you might susspect the Conservatives will do away with all the positive things we've brought in from Europe but you can't know it. I take it you voted remain yourself and consider the leave vote a Tory issue? Well it isn't. Socialist's have been fighting to get us out of the EU/Common market since we joined.

Your basically saying that the Conservatives are trying to kill people off and deliberately trying to destroy the weakest in society. I'm a floating voter myself, because I refuse to be tied to one party so I don't have an allegiance one way or another here but I think it's a bit daft to suggest that Teresa May is sitting in Downing Street plotting ways to kill the poor off, steal all our right away and laugh while doing so. She's doing what she considers best and while you and I might consider her ideas a disgrace it doesn't make her the devil. There vile people in every party, I feel very uncomfortable when I hear certain Labour party members being so anti-Semitic but I know that the vast bulk of the party are no doubt decent (If over paid, as are all politicians) people.

If people would just talk sensibly and reasonably like everyone on here rather then having a slagging match then we'd soon see that everyone wants the best for this country even if we strongly disagree about how to make it the best it can be.

 

[peteblue]

Since when do you want a credible alternative to the current government? You are a tory surely you are loving what is happening?

You have no idea because you refuse to understand why people vote for what is best rather than the colour of the rosette...keep voting like a cult member and you will never understand......

 

[ashwuk76]

How do you know this mate? You cant KNOW it will happen, you might susspect the Conservatives will do away with all the positive things we've brought in from Europe but you can't know it. I take it you voted remain yourself and consider the leave vote a Tory issue? Well it isn't. Socialist's have been fighting to get us out of the EU/Common market since we joined.

Your basically saying that the Conservatives are trying to kill people off and deliberately trying to destroy the weakest in society. I'm a floating voter myself, because I refuse to be tied to one party so I don't have an allegiance one way or another here but I think it's a bit daft to suggest that Teresa May is sitting in Downing Street plotting ways to kill the poor off, steal all our right away and laugh while doing so. She's doing what she considers best and while you and I might consider her ideas a disgrace it doesn't make her the devil. There vile people in every party, I feel very uncomfortable when I hear certain Labour party members being so anti-Semitic but I know that the vast bulk of the party are no doubt decent (If over paid, as are all politicians) people.

If people would just talk sensibly and reasonably like everyone on here rather then having a slagging match then we'd soon see that everyone wants the best for this country even if we strongly disagree about how to make it the best it can be.

Firstly, yes I do know it will happen, they already tried to get rid of the Human Rights Act, that to me signals the intention they have of destroying the rights we have built up. Yes when Brexit happens the laws will automatically enshrined in UK Law, however, they have the option to repeal anything they dont like after that, which they will.

Secondly, for one, the bedroom tax led to people committing suicide over it, the changes in the DWP around benefits made people commit suicide about it, but have these horrible changes been reversed? no they haven't.

Thirdly, the tories are ALL about ways to steal off the poor and give to the rich, why do you think they gave more tax breaks to the rich while others pay more?

Fourthly, its not just a few vile people in the tory party, quite a lot of them are, check the way they vote on issues to see that.

Sorry have to totally disgree, the tories do not want what is best for the country, they want what is best for them to make money off the backs of the poorer classes, whilst keeping those poorer classes in their place.

 

[ashwuk76]

You have no idea because you refuse to understand why people vote for what is best rather than the colour of the rosette...keep voting like a cult member and you will never understand......

lol cult member? you are seriously saying that to me? a tory? If i was voting for the colour of the rosette i would vote blue, for everton, but I dont because I care about people and society more than that.

You just dont understand because you are a tory think their policies are the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[peteblue]

lol cult member? you are seriously saying that to me? a tory? If i was voting for the colour of the rosette i would vote blue, for everton, but I dont because I care about people and society more than that.

You just dont understand because you are a tory think their policies are the best thing since sliced bread.

Let me put it to you another way. I have voted for the winners of every election since the early seventies. I voted to go into the EEC and I voted to leave the EU. My vote, and the votes of many others of a similar mind are the ones that decide who runs our country. Your vote always goes the same way and is counted on already, many tories always vote the same way and their votes are just counted on, like sheep on a farm. Those of us who actually are prepared to use our own brain to decide and not just follow some political 'I've always voted for X' are the people who actually decide on the direction of the country for a period of time, before we decide to change it. Now do you understand.....

 

[ashwuk76]

Let me put it to you another way. I have voted for the winners of every election since the early seventies. I voted to go into the EEC and I voted to leave the EU. My vote, and the votes of many others of a similar mind are the ones that decide who runs our country. Your vote always goes the same way and is counted on already, many tories always vote the same way and their votes are just counted on, like sheep on a farm. Those of us who actually are prepared to use our own brain to decide and not just follow some political 'I've always voted for X' are the people who actually decide on the direction of the country for a period of time, before we decide to change it. Now do you understand.....

Wow go you, always backing the winners, thats called glory hunting isnt it?

Of course I understand, dont insult my intelligence, yet again with your sneering snide remarks, not that I am surprised by that.

Look, under NO circumstances whatsoever would i vote tory, they are vile, pure evil, dont ever agree with them. Now do you understand? I am not voting Labour because its what I always do, I vote Labour because I agree with what they stand for, and want a fairer more inclusive society.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Whilst Labour cannot be held responsible for the global crash, it is inherently reasonable to judge them on the actions they took, or failed to take, when handling the country's finances during that period. They did a LOT wrong.

This is the biggest myth going.

I don't have the exact figures, but I read a while ago that as a percentage of GDP, spending under Thatcher - circa. 40%, Major - 40%, Blair - 38%, Cameron - 42%.

Then there is the fact that Osbourne publicly backed all of Labour's spending plans before the global crash.

There is no doubt that the Tories played an absolute blinder in making the mud stick and carrying out a very aggressive campaign to make out that Labour were reckless over-spenders with no regard for the economy, but it is flatly not true.

 

[peteblue]

Wow go you, always backing the winners, thats called glory hunting isnt it?

Of course I understand, dont insult my intelligence, yet again with your sneering snide remarks, not that I am surprised by that.

Look, under NO circumstances whatsoever would i vote tory, they are vile, pure evil, dont ever agree with them. Now do you understand? I am not voting Labour because its what I always do, I vote Labour because I agree with what they stand for, and want a fairer more inclusive society.

Then if you ever want to get into a position of power, it might be better if you try to convince the swing voters rather than abuse them........

 

[PhilM]

Agree with you re the policy of increasing Police numbers... have the details of this proposal been published? Are we talking about more actual full-time Constables, or will it be more of Blair's useless PCSOs?

Slightly off topic, but in my humble opinion the minnow PCSO gets an unfair level of stick and their numbers will continue to be purged.

For their price, level of training and ability to move on if unneeded they do a fabulous job of being a visible presence and doing mundane roles.

Back to the topic at hand however, a key issue with Police cuts has been the purging of particularly important yet dwindling skills due to pressure.

The public will always demand a visible presence and it'd be political suicide for these numbers to be drastically reduced, so they're prioritised.

You've also got a growing demand for terrorism (the old SB) and firearms officers, so the pot for you're every day Jack (CID) starts to dwindle.

Then there's specialisms such as fraud and finance being to diminish; traffic, public order and the likes have also seen significant cuts recently.

It's simple to talk about adding an extra 20,000 cops (average of 400+ per force), but it'll take years to rebuild the damage that's been done.

There's also the major issue of retention - there's growing numbers of recruits who simply don't stick it any more due to a number of issues.

But that's another topic entirely...