Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Bruce Wayne]

For your statement to be correct, your definition of socialism has to be a very narrow one mate. Also what is fair in your opinion?

Fairness is very subjective, and I suspect something that doesn't really exist.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Since when do you want a credible alternative to the current government? You are a tory surely you are loving what is happening?

Tory or not, nobody really wants a weak opposition. A weak opposition will lead to a complacent and therefore weak government.

 

[ashwuk76]

This criticism of the Tories that debt has increased under their tenure is one of the most frustrating things I constantly hear. It has been said before, but it would be impossible for it not to have increased considerably when you inherit a government with a massive deficit between income and spending. I saw in the news a couple of weeks ago that borrowing has now fallen to its lowest level in a decade. This is the way forward, and the deficit needs to be whittled away before the total debt can be tackled. It is just simple logic.

Then why not be honest that debt has increased? people would at least respect them more for it. They constantly say that debt hasnt risen, but it clearly has. Also its totally unfair, and quite frankly im fed up of hearing it, the debt levels were not totally labours fault, we had a GLOBAL crisis at the time labour were in power, and im pretty sure the tories would have had to do pretty much similar things to sort things out.

Honesty is what people want, but the tories are not honest about the debt.

 

[ashwuk76]

Not really. Any decent Government needs to have a credible opposition.

Or you end up with the Scottish Premier League, sort of.

You see mate, there is the bit where your argument falls down, you said decent Government, this lot are far from that im afraid.

 

[ashwuk76]

Tory or not, nobody really wants a weak opposition. A weak opposition will lead to a complacent and therefore weak government.

I refer you to my reply to Roydo

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Then why not be honest that debt has increased? people would at least respect them more for it. They constantly say that debt hasnt risen, but it clearly has. Also its totally unfair, and quite frankly im fed up of hearing it, the debt levels were not totally labours fault, we had a GLOBAL crisis at the time labour were in power, and im pretty sure the tories would have had to do pretty much similar things to sort things out.

Honesty is what people want, but the tories are not honest about the debt.

Indeed and there is scarcely a major economy that hasn't seen debt rise hugely since the recession. Less point scoring and more honesty would be good from all parties.

 

[roydo]

You see mate, there is the bit where your argument falls down, you said decent Government, this lot are far from that im afraid.

Did I say they were?

I said ANY decent Government needs a credible opposition.

 

[roydo]

You see mate, there is the bit where your argument falls down, you said decent Government, this lot are far from that im afraid.

And the opposition is.....

 

[ashwuk76]

Indeed and there is scarcely a major economy that hasn't seen debt rise hugely since the recession. Less point scoring and more honesty would be good from all parties.

Exactly, it affecting the entire world, starting with the sub prime mortgage scandal in america. But as usual, the tories blamed labour for it. Although I have to admit it made me angry that Labour were very weak at trying to argue against it, to me they just accepted it was their fault when it wasnt.

 

[ashwuk76]

Did I say they were?

I said ANY decent Government needs a credible opposition.

No to be fair you didnt say they were.

I actually do think that Corbyn has held this Government to account more than most labour leaders in the past. Which is why, in my opinion, the tories called this election, they are trying to totally destroy him, and the PLP are helping the tories sadly.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

You see mate, there is the bit where your argument falls down, you said decent Government, this lot are far from that im afraid.

Yes but you were suggesting that Conservative voters are happy to see the state Labour are in and have no interest in a credible opposition. That might be the government's stance but it certainly isn't something that any voter, Tory or otherwise will be happy with. It doesn't matter who's in government you want a strong opposition forcing the government to up their game.

 

[ashwuk76]

Yes but you were suggesting that Conservative voters are happy to see the state Labour are in and have no interest in a credible opposition. That might be the government's stance but it certainly isn't something that any voter, Tory or otherwise will be happy with. If Labour were in government id want to see a strong Conservative opposition making Labour up their game.

Not sure i totally agree mate, there are lots on here who vote tory who are gloating and as ive had said to me, they cant wait to see my tears when labour is effectively destroyed as an opposition.


I hate the sneering tories, hate everything they stand for, and they are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of getting a landslide make no mistake.

 

[glorydaze]

Just like to congratulate all on a decent thread that hasn't descended into vitriol and personal insults, a pleasure to read.

 

[Tree13]

I think youre being unfair on large swathes of the UK population. This country is definitely not as selfish and greedy as you suggest. I try to give whereever possible. I think within the current labour movement there are way too many sweeping generalisations. I just look down my twitter feed the last few days and so many posts from people along the lines of "cannot believe people not voting labour, how can so many want the disabled to die". Now maybe you think im wrong again, but i know lots of people who dont vote labour, and none of them express that view. And thank goodness at that. That sort of nonsense has to stop if you want to win votes off decent people. I dont try and be an expert, I just try to give my observations to you.

Does it feel like the country is better off than 2010? Yes I think so. Yes debt still high, but we can service it better. Employment rates are very good. Personal allowance doubled, minimum wage soon to be double.

I'm not aligned and don't even think i can vote labour/tory in my constituency in NI. Just trying to give an objective view of why I feel labour/corbyn message is failing. There's being power hungry and there's being stubborn. Labour need to meet the electorate somewhere in the middle of they're to be electable.

I would say that while I disagree with some things you say, you are a credit to your party and a heck of a lot of others in labour could learn to debate in such an articulate and mature manner

There's a lot of this about, particularly on social media. It's aggressive and off-putting.
Why don't you vote Labour? Do you hate women?
Why don't you vote Labour? Are you Islamophobic?
Why don't you vote Labour? Are you in favour of Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine?
Why don't you vote Labour? Do you like watching people drown in the med?

Really low, amoral politics. Rather than promote any sensible policies, just attack and smear anyone that doesn't meekly go along with the echo-chamber consensus. Interestingly, it tends to be the SJW 25-35 demographic that take this approach - I don't get the same sense of seething, blind hatred from Corbyn.

 

[Tree13]

Not sure i totally agree mate, there are lots on here who vote tory who are gloating and as ive had said to me, they cant wait to see my tears when labour is effectively destroyed as an opposition.


I hate the sneering tories, hate everything they stand for, and they are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of getting a landslide make no mistake.

Despite the fact that the few Tory voters who have posted on here have all said the opposite?