Current Affairs The Labour Party

[tsubaki]

But that is, and will be, the single biggest issue during the current parliament. All else will be a sideshow at best, and I suspect you would object to the Labour party opposing Brexit?

The way that the internal opposition in the PLP would probably prefer to oppose Brexit? Certainly.

The only way it should be opposed is to force a vote on the deal that emerges at the end of the negotiations, which would be legitimate - since it probably won't be anything like what leave said it would be - and wouldn't further erode faith in the democratic process. What they want to do - ignore the referendum result and just kill it - would be an absolute disaster and would probably have all manner of unintended consequences for everyone further down the line, especially Labour because they would inevitably be blamed for it.

 

[JonS]

Didn't you vote for Brexit?

Yes but why exactly would that mean I'd be pro Conservative? You do realise that not wanting to be a part of the Common Market was an argument of the Left long before the Tories hijacked the issue for their own self interest. It's like I've been saying since before the Referendum Bruce, loads of us had wildly different reasons for voting for Brexit.

Exactly. The view that sometimes gets spread on here and elsewhere that Brexit is inheritably right wing is completely false.

Whether one voted Brexit or remain is a simple constitutional preference for a fully sovereign country or supranational alliance/burgeoning superstate that in itself is separate from any right or leftwingness.

Intact as far as I know virtually all ultra left wing parties wanted to leave the EU as did a majority of far left MPs and as would Tony Benn if he had still been alive.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Exactly. The view that sometimes gets spread on here and elsewhere that Brexit is inheritably right wing is completely false.

Whether one voted Brexit or remain is a simple constitutional preference for a fully sovereign country or supranational alliance/burgeoning superstate that in itself is separate from any right or leftwingness.

Intact as far as I know virtually all ultra left wing parties wanted to leave the EU as did a majority of far left MPs and as would Tony Benn if he had still been alive.

One of the reasons why the upper echelons of the Labour party have such a problem with Jeremy Corbyn is because is widely known what he thought about the EU and it doesn't take much of a guess to imagine which way he voted. He'd deny this of course but his half-harted remain campaign told a different story.

 

[tsubaki]

One of the reasons why the upper echelons of the Labour party have such a problem with Jeremy Corbyn is because is widely known what he thought about the EU and it doesn't take much of a guess to imagine which way he voted. He'd deny this of course but his half-harted remain campaign told a different story.

Perhaps, though even in his "half-hearted remain campaign" he was much more visible than the internal opposition was.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Perhaps, though even in his "half-hearted remain campaign" he was much more visible than the internal opposition was.

I don't personally think he ran a bad campaign. I just don't believe he was true to his beliefs because his opinions of the EU over the years sound very different to what he was saying during the referendum campaign. He was trying to keep the party united but failed to see the depths that the Blairites would plummet to see him removed regardless of how well he did.

 

[1966efc]

Much of this suggests to me the cries of mourners over an exhumed corpse ... if only this, if only that.

Helpful if those of a leftist bent decided what they expect of Labour and how this can best be achieved.

And for Christ's sake, please know the history of the party before making fantastical assertions.

 

[edge]

Exactly. The view that sometimes gets spread on here and elsewhere that Brexit is inheritably right wing is completely false.

Whether one voted Brexit or remain is a simple constitutional preference for a fully sovereign country or supranational alliance/burgeoning superstate that in itself is separate from any right or leftwingness.

Intact as far as I know virtually all ultra left wing parties wanted to leave the EU as did a majority of far left MPs and as would Tony Benn if he had still been alive.

My union the RMT backed the out side, probably the most active left wing union in the UK at the moment certainly not right wing.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

My union the RMT backed the out side, probably the most active left wing union in the UK at the moment certainly not right wing.

It's an easy and lazy excuse from the remain side to imply everyone who voted out was a right-wing nut job. They'd rather do that then face up to the ineptitude of their own campaign. It's going on here over Brexit and in the States with Trump. Millions of good people are being smeared because the defeated side are incapable of admitting their sides own shortcomings.

 

[JonS]

It's an easy and lazy excuse from the remain side to imply everyone who voted out was a right-wing nut job. They'd rather do that then face up to the ineptitude of their own campaign. It's going on here over Brexit and in the States with Trump. Millions of good people are being smeared because the defeated side are incapable of admitting their sides own shortcomings.

And what's even worse is that out of their misguided, head in the sand political correctness and oh-so-holier-than-thou smugness (while blind to any of their own predudices - if free trade and free movement for the EU are so good would they like free trade and free movement including into Britain across the whole world?) they remain blind to the ordinary issues ordinary less well off people encounter which are what contributed to the Trump and Brexit votes.

 

[Seanjd]

And what's even worse is that out of their misguided, head in the sand political correctness and oh-so-holier-than-thou smugness (while blind to any of their own predudices - if free trade and free movement for the EU are so good would they like free trade and free movement including into Britain across the whole world?) they remain blind to the ordinary issues ordinary less well off people encounter which are what contributed to the Trump and Brexit votes.

Examples of the issues we are blind to?

 

[edge]

And what's even worse is that out of their misguided, head in the sand political correctness and oh-so-holier-than-thou smugness (while blind to any of their own predudices - if free trade and free movement for the EU are so good would they like free trade and free movement including into Britain across the whole world?) they remain blind to the ordinary issues ordinary less well off people encounter which are what contributed to the Trump and Brexit votes.

Think both sides had lots of people who had concerns/ideas that have been polerised as the arguments got taken forward.
It seemed to be if you voted a certain way it emplied people were nailed on to Hold a certain narrow viewpoint on the subject.
Not really the case with a lot of people,
But suppose it's easier to throw a name at someone that engage in a constructive dialogue to find out why they hold those views.
Labour party didn't really give any lead on the subject as i suspect they were on a loser which ever way they jumped.

 

[joey_macmo]

It's an easy and lazy excuse from the remain side to imply everyone who voted out was a right-wing nut job. They'd rather do that then face up to the ineptitude of their own campaign. It's going on here over Brexit and in the States with Trump. Millions of good people are being smeared because the defeated side are incapable of admitting their sides own shortcomings.

I don't think I've seen a single person in the EU thread that has tried to argue that the remain campaign wasn't inept.

 

[joey_macmo]

And what's even worse is that out of their misguided, head in the sand political correctness and oh-so-holier-than-thou smugness (while blind to any of their own predudices - if free trade and free movement for the EU are so good would they like free trade and free movement including into Britain across the whole world?) they remain blind to the ordinary issues ordinary less well off people encounter which are what contributed to the Trump and Brexit votes.

Complains about generalisations by making generalisations

Sound

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I don't think I've seen a single person in the EU thread that has tried to argue that the remain campaign wasn't inept.

The quality of debate in the EU thread is much better then most places mate. Including our political masters in both houses.

 

[sd_1992]

The way that the internal opposition in the PLP would probably prefer to oppose Brexit? Certainly.

The only way it should be opposed is to force a vote on the deal that emerges at the end of the negotiations, which would be legitimate - since it probably won't be anything like what leave said it would be - and wouldn't further erode faith in the democratic process. What they want to do - ignore the referendum result and just kill it - would be an absolute disaster and would probably have all manner of unintended consequences for everyone further down the line, especially Labour because they would inevitably be blamed for it.

Given that it will be a choice between whatever deal is on offer or no deal at all what is the point in that?