Current Affairs The Labour Party

[orchard]

He isn't far left though is he?
I'll use this to repeat my point mate. It's easy to blame may for the campaign (and i'm not excusing the monstrous waster), but the root problem is that the Con's plans involve going further right than they currently are, and that's a hard sell that would lose them even more votes.

Everyone is allowed their own take on situation, it's not black and white due to all the variables particular. From my point of view I'm not saying there wasn't any rejection of the Tory party, especially in the constituencies that had large swings to Labour, however they won more seats in Scotland and also turned safe Labour seats blue. So you could equally say there was a rejection of Labour, be it because they too far to the left or the infighting that was pretty constant for the last 2 years or they do not see JC as PM material. (Or a bit of everything)

Over the last 3 elections, the difference between most seats won and most seats lost has been 30 to Labour and 24 to the Tories. It's undeniably good what Labour have managed in the circumstances but still they have only just got themselves back above 2010 levels. (+4) Where the Tories are up (+12) from that time, which is rare that a party goes up after 3 election wins. (although the first being a coalition is something to take account there)

So given the data, is current Labour creating any more of a sea change to what the tail of New Labour did? The feeling may be different with populist policies (for true socialists) that have re-energised the party members and enabled them to campaign with distinct differences to policies (much easier than having little difference to other parties) and the youth movement that gets talked about so much. The numbers however just don't back that up though. I want Labour to do well but I still have my doubts that what appears a naturally centre-right country will vote in a far left leader.

 

[peteblue]

DUP though Pete. No defending that.

Hopefully on Monday Abbott will get moved - she won't get Shadow Home Sec again I hope as it's too easy an open goal for the Tories - and those 'leaked emails' from Milne would suggest she knows the game is up.

There will be lots of reservations about the DUP. If he doesn't get rid of Abbott he will be crucified......

 

[Billy Dean]

Everyone is allowed their own take on situation, it's not black and white due to all the variables particular to this election. From my point of view I'm not saying there wasn't any rejection of the Tory party, especially in the constituencies that had large swings to Labour, however they won more seats in Scotland and also turned safe Labour seats blue. So you could equally say there was a rejection of Labour, be it because they too far to the left or the infighting that was pretty constant for the last 2 years or they do not see JC as PM material. (Or a bit of everything)

Over the last 3 elections, the difference between most seats won and most seats lost has been 30 to Labour and 24 to the Tories. It's undeniably good what Labour have managed in the circumstances but still they have only just got themselves back above 2010 levels. (+4) Where the Tories are up (+12) from that time, which is rare that a party goes up after 3 election wins. (although the first being a coalition is something to take account there)

So given the data, is current Labour creating any more of a pull to the party compared to what the tail of New Labour did? The feeling may be different with populist policies (for true socialists) that have re-energised the party members and enabled them to campaign with distinct differences to policies (much easier than having little difference to other parties) and the youth movement that gets talked about so much. The numbers however just don't back that up though. I want Labour to do well but I still have my doubts that what appears a naturally centre-right country will vote in a far left leader.

Far left? He's not a Marxist.

 

[hallamblue]

Far left? He's not a Marxist.

The trouble is, Blair took Labour so far to the right that moderate centrist Liberal policies now appear left wing.

 

[Billy Dean]

Everyone is allowed their own take on situation, it's not black and white due to all the variables particular to this election. From my point of view I'm not saying there wasn't any rejection of the Tory party, especially in the constituencies that had large swings to Labour, however they won more seats in Scotland and also turned safe Labour seats blue. So you could equally say there was a rejection of Labour, be it because they too far to the left or the infighting that was pretty constant for the last 2 years or they do not see JC as PM material. (Or a bit of everything)

Over the last 3 elections, the difference between most seats won and most seats lost has been 30 to Labour and 24 to the Tories. It's undeniably good what Labour have managed in the circumstances but still they have only just got themselves back above 2010 levels. (+4) Where the Tories are up (+12) from that time, which is rare that a party goes up after 3 election wins. (although the first being a coalition is something to take account there)

So given the data, is current Labour creating any more of a pull to the party compared to what the tail of New Labour did? The feeling may be different with populist policies (for true socialists) that have re-energised the party members and enabled them to campaign with distinct differences to policies (much easier than having little difference to other parties) and the youth movement that gets talked about so much. The numbers however just don't back that up though. I want Labour to do well but I still have my doubts that what appears a naturally centre-right country will vote in a far left leader.

Do you not think momentum will be a factor? Corbyn has it now, the Tories don't. Corbyn has defeated the media smear campaign to an extent. I can't see that campaign maintaining the same level of force as it had done before. Also enemies inside the PLP have softened their stance towards him. Without those 2 very significant obstacles I can only see support for him growing. Traditional Labour supporters who were gullible enough to be taken in by the smears and defect to the Tories will come back, especially with May not resigning. She has shown herself to be dishonest, immoral, dangerous and hypocritical over the last couple of months. And now she's getting into bed with the DUP. This is potentially disastrous for the Tories and could see them out of office for a long, long time.

There will be lots of reservations about the DUP. If he doesn't get rid of Abbott he will be crucified......

He already has hasn't he?

 

[hallamblue]

Does anybody think there's a chance for Chuka Umunna to lead Labour with a centre left agenda? I think he would have more appeal to the floating voters. I'm not sure that Corbyn can win enough of them over.

 

[The binman chronicles]

He isn't far left though is he?

Far left? He's not a Marxist.

Red Ed fought the 2015 campaign with Labour positioned to the left of the one Brown did in 2010, which was again left of the one that Blair had in 2005. What are we going for here? Fifty shades of left?

@hallamblue is correct the shift may seem worse than it is due to the recent fight over the centre, but still how much further left can Corbyn go without going to communism. That would be totally unacceptable in political terms in the UK, so surely the far left (in this country) is where Labour is now?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Does anybody think there's a chance for Chuka Umunna to lead Labour with a centre left agenda? I think he would have more appeal to the floating voters. I'm not sure that Corbyn can win enough of them over.

Would be very sensible, however wasn't he about to run as leader and then pulled out? He could have skeltons in the closet that he doesn't want outed or he doesn't want to put his family through the intense media storm. If that is the case, will he want to in the future?

 

[flibbyflob]

Does anybody think there's a chance for Chuka Umunna to lead Labour with a centre left agenda? I think he would have more appeal to the floating voters. I'm not sure that Corbyn can win enough of them over.

Corbyn is going nowhere so that eventuality is a long way down the line. I would be amazed if there wasn't another election before the 5 years is up and also that Corbyn isn't the leader for that election. There is simply no way that the PLP could remove him even if they wanted to now. Only way Corbyn leaves as leader is due to ill health and nobody would wish that on anyone.

 

[orchard]

It's a relative concept, so don't sound so surprised. He's not far left.

Red Ed fought the 2015 campaign with Labour positioned to the left of the one Brown did in 2010, which was again left of the one that Blair had in 2005. What are we going for here? Fifty shades of left?

@hallamblue is correct the shift may seem worse than it is due to the recent fight over the centre, but still how much further left can Corbyn go without going to communism. That would be totally unacceptable in political terms in the UK, so surely the far left (in this country) is where Labour is now?

 

[Billy Dean]

Red Ed fought the 2015 campaign with Labour positioned to the left of the one Brown did in 2010, which was again left of the one that Blair had in 2005. What are we going for here? Fifty shades of left?

@hallamblue is correct the shift may seem worse than it is due to the recent fight over the centre, but still how much further left can Corbyn go without going to communism. That would be totally unacceptable in political terms in the UK, so surely the far left (in this country) is where Labour is now?

stop reading the red tops dude.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Do you not think momentum will be a factor? Corbyn has it now, the Tories don't. Corbyn has defeated the media smear campaign to an extent. I can't see that campaign maintaining the same level of force as it had done before. Also enemies inside the PLP have softened their stance towards him. Without those 2 very significant obstacles I can only see support for him growing. Traditional Labour supporters who were gullible enough to be taken in by the smears and defect to the Tories will come back, especially with May not resigning. She has shown herself to be dishonest, immoral, dangerous and hypocritical over the last couple of months. And now she's getting into bed with the DUP. This is potentially disastrous for the Tories and could see them out of office for a long, long time.

Lot of good points there and it's almost impossible to know for sure what will happen. The problem as I see it is that momentum can swing in a sixpence, as you saw what happened in this election. It won't be May up against Corbyn, so that gets rid of that problem. They could then have the new leader 'bounce'. Depending of course on who they pick if the electorate find them platable or at least more than JC.

The DUP for sure will be an issue but there are 3 saving graces for the Tories, it's not lile a proper coalition like when Cleggy was sat by Dave the entire time, so it's not like a constant reminder. The second is the fact they will dump them at somepoint and maybe get some kudos for doing so. (whether that balances the negative of joining them probably not - but it will be a kind of damage control) Thirdly it will be a short parliament.

The Tories will have to keep to mild legislation the sort that gets cross party support, such as anti-terror laws and hopefully can the grammar schools one. So they can't shift to the right to put off more centre voters.

For Corbyn to pick up more seats he will need to make a bid for the centre too. Just the way I see it imho.

 

[The binman chronicles]

stop reading the red tops dude.

Well argued mate. Give yourself a pat on the back. I don't read any papers. I can look at the evidence live from parliment and make my own mind up on the situation. Can you?

 

[Number_25]

I'm so proud of what we've achieved, I have blisters on my feet from leafleting/canvassing - getting the message and policy out there.

I've been a Labour Party member all my life, and I've always wanted us to become a movement for social and economic change - and that's exactly what's happening.

 

[orly]

Does anybody think there's a chance for Chuka Umunna to lead Labour with a centre left agenda? I think he would have more appeal to the floating voters. I'm not sure that Corbyn can win enough of them over.

Absolutely none. Skeletons in the closet. Was warned off last time hours after appearing with Mandelson before a leadership bid.

He's a kingmaker.