Current Affairs The Labour Party

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Best for Labour to mention Brexit as little as possible for the foreseeable.

Yeah, I'd probably agree with you, I just wonder if they'll be able to avoid it. There's a hope that the Tories aren't going to want to make it front and centre as only their died in the wool bad Tories (who they never need to convince to vote) will want another election centered on it.
 
Allmep.webp

Well done to the Liberal Party for discussing and making support of an International Fund for Israeli-Palestinian Peace official party policy.

Will Labour be doing something similar at their forthcoming conference, or will it just be the usual flag waving nonsense?

I won't be holding my breath: when it was debated in Parliament -twice - not one of the Labour MPs who are usually so eager to associate themselves with support for the Palestinian people bothered to turn up, let alone make a contribution, either for or against.
 
The Brexit thing is interesting. Whether it's a poisoned chalice for Labour whatever they do or if they could push the story of Brexit has happened, we may not all agree it should have done, but it has, and the Tories have used it to help themselves. We will ensure that the future of Brexit is one that helps the poor and 'ordinary' person the most
Get the feeling the Tories will fight the next election on the basis of saving Brexit. Emphasising how all the losses and suffering will be for nothing if Labour are allowed to do whatever they propose
 
Get the feeling the Tories will fight the next election on the basis of saving Brexit. Emphasising how all the losses and suffering will be for nothing if Labour are allowed to do whatever they propose

Conversely Labour should fight it on the basis of Brexit was possible, but the Tories used it as an opportunity to enrich themselves rather than the nation.
 
How Starmer's leadership is playing out is fascinating.

To me he seems to be the wrong man with the right idea. OMOV, in order to become remotely electable again, needs binning, and it also acts as a shield of competence to hide more left wing policies like on zero hour contracts.

So he's trying to bring about change by restoring confidence in Labour, but the loudest voices against him are his own party - an inverse Corbyn.

I think he's doomed personally, but if he manages to destroy OMOV, then at least he can be looked back at as the man who saved Labour from itself in the long run.
 
How Starmer's leadership is playing out is fascinating.

To me he seems to be the wrong man with the right idea. OMOV, in order to become remotely electable again, needs binning, and it also acts as a shield of competence to hide more left wing policies like on zero hour contracts.

So he's trying to bring about change by restoring confidence in Labour, but the loudest voices against him are his own party - an inverse Corbyn.

I think he's doomed personally, but if he manages to destroy OMOV, then at least he can be looked back at as the man who saved Labour from itself in the long run.

I think you are pretty much entirely wrong here.

OMOV is not perfect (as we saw with Corbyn just because a leader is voted in overwhelmingly twice it means nothing if the PLP won't support him) but it at least is relatively open and honest, whereas what he (they, really) want to replace it with is a system that guarantees fixes and which the faction around him will only support for as long as it is them successfully implementing the fixes; once it doesn't work (as when Miliband, D lost thanks to it) it will be attacked by them as the anti-democratic farce it is.

The big problem that Starmer has is that competence is the best weapon to wield against this government and yet he has surrounded himself with incompetents, people who have over the course of his leadership proved they are not up to the job (which they should have proved before he got the job, but still). It isn't a matter of policies at all; this lot are useless and would be even if God himself descended from the heavens with the next manifesto etched into two giant pieces of the white cliffs of Dover.
 
“helping first time buyers” is of course shorthand for “we aren’t going to do anything”
If you say so. Not what I understand from what is being proposed there are number of actions that will cool.the housing markert.
Not at least reintroduction of councils being allowed rebuild the it housing stock. Bad news for pension pots of landlording baby boomers.
 
I think you are pretty much entirely wrong here.

OMOV is not perfect (as we saw with Corbyn just because a leader is voted in overwhelmingly twice it means nothing if the PLP won't support him) but it at least is relatively open and honest, whereas what he (they, really) want to replace it with is a system that guarantees fixes and which the faction around him will only support for as long as it is them successfully implementing the fixes; once it doesn't work (as when Miliband, D lost thanks to it) it will be attacked by them as the anti-democratic farce it is.

The big problem that Starmer has is that competence is the best weapon to wield against this government and yet he has surrounded himself with incompetents, people who have over the course of his leadership proved they are not up to the job (which they should have proved before he got the job, but still). It isn't a matter of policies at all; this lot are useless and would be even if God himself descended from the heavens with the next manifesto etched into two giant pieces of the white cliffs of Dover.

The PLP need to be able to choose their leader, because that's their day to day job and they need a leader that has the confidence of them in parliament to win elections. The electorate choose their MPs in the first instance via vote - that's democracy. OMOV means you just get reactionary infiltration of the voting system and you end up with stupid leaders like Corbyn. Arguing something is only democratic if everyone has an equal vote at all levels is silly - it's like saying there should be a referendum on everything instead of votes in parliament.

The fact is the weight of vote importance should be geared towards the PLP.

Not that it matters, as per usual the unions and membership have torpedoed it and give themselves yet another punch to the face. It's amazing the amount of self-harm Labour has done itself in the last five years. And, of course, that's the problem now - people don't trust them and see them as a bunch of ideological incompetent morons. The stain of Corbyn will take years to wash off, if it ever does, and the Tories have free reign in the interim.
 
The PLP need to be able to choose their leader, because that's their day to day job and they need a leader that has the confidence of them in parliament to win elections. The electorate choose their MPs in the first instance via vote - that's democracy. OMOV means you just get reactionary infiltration of the voting system and you end up with stupid leaders like Corbyn. Arguing something is only democratic if everyone has an equal vote at all levels is silly - it's like saying there should be a referendum on everything instead of votes in parliament.

The fact is the weight of vote importance should be geared towards the PLP.

Not that it matters, as per usual the unions and membership have torpedoed it and give themselves yet another punch to the face. It's amazing the amount of self-harm Labour has done itself in the last five years. And, of course, that's the problem now - people don't trust them and see them as a bunch of ideological incompetent morons. The stain of Corbyn will take years to wash off, if it ever does, and the Tories have free reign in the interim.

The PLP do need to choose their leader, but the problem the party has is that (though this is much better now than it was from 2010-2019) there were an awful lot of people in the PLP who were, frankly, at best useless and at worst snakes. Let us not forget that the likes of Austin and Woodcock got peerages for what they did, with Hunt, Watson and Dugher ending up with jobs that at least have the appearance of being sinecures. Then there was Danczuk, a man whose Parliamentary career took in almost every scandal possible.

These were not people in whom anyone - party member or otherwise - should have put any trust whatsoever, and all of them had power and influence within the party (fortunately not any more). Even the people who you could at least make an argument left on political grounds - TIG - demonstrated how bad they were at the basics of politics. Remember that memo where they plotted to absorb the Lib Dems? Or when they blocked a possible Brexit compromise deal?

Or to put it another way in 2015 the PLP put up three candidates and they proceeded to get thrashed. The electorate would have given any one of them a similar kicking; they were terrible and fought campaigns (Burnham's especially) that really should be studied as examples of failure.

Then the PLP then got to the point of having an overwhelming anti-Corbyn strength in 2016 and could have just told him he could remain Labour leader, but that the PLP would appoint a Leader of the Opposition that enjoyed its confidence. They'd have had Parliamentary sense and logic on their side (given that Corbyn probably wouldn't have even been able to form an effective government unless in a landslide win) - but no, they proceeded to pick an even worse candidate than the 2015 mob. He then got thrashed. They'd still have got thrashed in the event that their hypothetical LOTO faced a general election, but at least you would be able to say they understood how the Parliamentary system worked.

The PLP between 2010 and 2019 were, frankly, a disgrace who could not be trusted with anything. Leaving them with choice of party leader would have probably killed the party. In 2015 the membership - correctly - tried to do something about them.
 
If you say so. Not what I understand from what is being proposed there are number of actions that will cool.the housing markert.
Not at least reintroduction of councils being allowed rebuild the it housing stock. Bad news for pension pots of landlording baby boomers.
Young folk I meet want a safe, clean flat with a decent landlord and a fair rent. Getting on the housing ladder and saddling yourself to a mortgage is not a priority.
The whole home ownership thing is a nonsense.
Labour should be headlining on social housing and not trying to come across like Diet Tories. We had enough of that with Blair.
 
Young folk I meet want a safe, clean flat with a decent landlord and a fair rent. Getting on the housing ladder and saddling yourself to a mortgage is not a priority.
The whole home ownership thing is a nonsense.
Labour should be headlining on social housing and not trying to come across like Diet Tories. We had enough of that with Blair.
I had the same attitude, no way did I want the worry mum and dad had in the 80s with Tory mismanagement with all things housing. Until the kids came along then I started thinking, legacy.
Owning a home should always be an aspiration that's achievable for the majority.
 
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