Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Spadge Vernacular]

TBF "the centre" is a nothing anyway - in modern political terms its shorthand for "we are normal, everyone else is extreme" and it only ever works when you have media and PR types attacking your rivals as extremists, so that "reasonable people" feel they have to vote for you to demonstrate their reasonableness.

Moderate is probably a better term and a fair description.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Of course, the best way to do that is to insult and abuse everybody who doesn't agree with you 100%. People who voted Green/LibDem/SNP/Plaid Cymru are "Tories" and therefore beyond the pale. As for "Centrists", they're worse than Tories. Starmer supporters - they're just "Red Tories". Blairites - one degree less evil than Nazis.

That's the way to win support, folks!

Not really probably applies to Ingerland and it's luddite obsession with first past the post. When you move into areas which use proportional voting mechanisms it's much less decisive.

It's almost funny that you followed the quoted post using Ingerland and luddites.

 

[tsubaki]

Moderate is probably a better term and a fair description.

Not really - its the same sort of descriptor as centrism; "I am reasonable but my opponents are not".

That is why we end up in absurd situations like with rail nationalisation, which was supported (to greater or lesser degrees) by governments of both parties for forty years, which has overwhelming public support and yet for the past twenty years it has been an extremist political position.

Then there is "supporting our troops", which is absolutely required from anyone in political life nowadays - or at least being seen to do it is; throwing them on the dole, closing their bases or screwing them via increasing rent is fine.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Not really - its the same sort of descriptor as centrism; "I am reasonable but my opponents are not".

That is why we end up in absurd situations like with rail nationalisation, which was supported (to greater or lesser degrees) by governments of both parties for forty years, which has overwhelming public support and yet for the past twenty years it has been an extremist political position.

Then there is "supporting our troops", which is absolutely required from anyone in political life nowadays - or at least being seen to do it is; throwing them on the dole, closing their bases or screwing them via increasing rent is fine.

You are welcome to your opinion but in my experience, most people are not politically radical, they are moderate in their views and actions.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

You are welcome to your opinion but in my experience, most people are not politically radical, they are moderate in their views and actions.

His argument is that what is that the notions of ‘moderate’ or ‘politically radical’ are fairly fluid concepts, that mean different things in different eras which I agree with.
Personally think that ‘moderate’ now or centrism is more right wing than left

 

[tsubaki]

You are welcome to your opinion but in my experience, most people are not politically radical, they are moderate in their views and actions.

The problem is that moderate politicians generally aren’t moderate in their views and actions. Hence saying you are a political moderate is meaningless at best, and a fraud otherwise.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

It's almost funny that you followed the quoted post using Ingerland and luddites.

Ingerland is a sporting term for England, and wanting to keep first past the post in elections is luddite behaviour. Welsh national politics is nowhere near as polarised as the my dad is bigger than your dad politics that is practiced in Ingerland.

Still there is always hope for the luddites amongst us.

Welsh election: Tory U-turn on free prescriptions

After over a decade opposing the policy, the Tories reverse their stance for the Senedd election.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mrk]

The Great Communicator lays it all out here (28 mins in) - why everyone loves labour policy so much they vote Tory.

His point at 28 minutes in about individual policies is literally the most lucid political argument I've heard from a UK politician in ages. Goes a long way to explaining why political parties who obsess over policy never win.

 

[dead_soft]

TBF "the centre" is a nothing anyway - in modern political terms its shorthand for "we are normal, everyone else is extreme" and it only ever works when you have media and PR types attacking your rivals as extremists, so that "reasonable people" feel they have to vote for you to demonstrate their reasonableness.

Yeah, agree, and what I meant by bring the centre to you - the policies the country will accept needs to shift towards the left rather than the party accepting that 'the centre' is further right and so should appeal to it where it is

 

[dead_soft]

You may not - there's many who have, by implication.

Not sure I've seen that regularly in much of the mainstream left Labour discourse. Some people may well do that but it is also possible it's the narrative rather than the truth?

 

[Number_25]

 

[dublinbluenose]

Lib Dems and Greens getting Starmer's feared vaccine bounce too !

Labour are in freefall

 

[Charro]

He needs to go if the elections coming up are a complete disaster.

 

[tsubaki]

He needs to go if the elections coming up are a complete disaster.

TBF he needs to go if he still thinks the people around him are in any way competent - for a start, if Labour do get hammered in the elections they'll be the ones stabbing him in the back.

 

[orchard]

TBF he needs to go if he still thinks the people around him are in any way competent - for a start, if Labour do get hammered in the elections they'll be the ones stabbing him in the back.

Too far gone for just him going being the solution surely?