Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Tubey]

I can't agree with that. Labour could quite legitimately claim that this "deal" is a purely Conservative Party measure and therefore either vote against it, as the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru & the Greens did, or at the very least abstain on the grounds that the deal is bad for Britain and so they cannot support it. As it is, whenever they criticise the deal from now on, the question will be asked "why did you vote to support it, then?" The deal would have been passed anyway given the fact that all the Tory MPs voted for it.

Nuances can quite easily be ignored when it comes to electioneering.

If Labour voted against it, they'd be seen as an immature party of protest risking no deal for political games. The Tories would be able to attack them with impunity forevermore - "Brexit might have been a bad idea but Labour wanted a no deal, which would have been worse!"

By voting for it while expressing the fact they're doing so out of necessity, the Tories still fully own Brexit and Labour are seen as the grown ups.

The public are sick of Labour being a party of perpetual protest instead of a party in waiting ready to lead. The damage done by Corbyn was incalculable and this is just one more step in repairing it.

 

[Blues Harp]

If Labour voted against it, they'd be seen as an immature party of protest risking no deal for political games. The Tories would be able to attack them with impunity forevermore - "Brexit might have been a bad idea but Labour wanted a no deal, which would have been worse!"

By voting for it while expressing the fact they're doing so out of necessity, the Tories still fully own Brexit and Labour are seen as the grown ups.

The public are sick of Labour being a party of perpetual protest instead of a party in waiting ready to lead. The damage done by Corbyn was incalculable and this is just one more step in repairing it.

Majority of the public don't engage with politics...
Thank feck for strictly and love island eh?
Sigh.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Majority of the public don't engage with politics...
Thank feck for strictly and love island eh?
Sigh.

The ones who vote will take stock round election time, which why voting and instructing rest parliamentary Labour is important, its Johnson Brexit deal, as bad as it is, its better than no deal... The blame will fall squarely with him and the Tory Party and Government.

They now need to deliver the tangible benefits in the next 3 years, which is where Starmer will pitch the battle ground...

 

[Blues Harp]

The ones who vote will take stock round election time, which why voting and instructing rest parliamentary Labour is important, its Johnson Brexit deal, as bad as it is, its better than no deal... The blame will fall squarely with him and the Tory Party and Government.

They now need to deliver the tangible benefits in the next 3 years, which is where Starmer will pitch the battle ground...

Lot can happen in 3 years...
Starmer is as unprincipled as the scummy tory government and bozo's devoted followers
What a choice eh?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The public are sick of Labour being a party of perpetual protest instead of a party in waiting ready to lead

Lot can happen in 3 years...
Starmer is as unprincipled as the scummy tory government and bozo's devoted followers
What a choice eh?

What Tubey states is correct...

Politics is a case of compromise and dilution... Its all down to how much of a flavour i can tolerate. I'm happy to wait and see some policy. Discipline or perception is important element when election comes round.
Get how Corbyn wanted to mange his leadership, however, the wider and majority electorate like to have the alpha type rule over them...

 

[dannyboy]

If Labour voted against it, they'd be seen as an immature party of protest risking no deal for political games. The Tories would be able to attack them with impunity forevermore - "Brexit might have been a bad idea but Labour wanted a no deal, which would have been worse!"

By voting for it while expressing the fact they're doing so out of necessity, the Tories stLaill fully own Brexit and Labour are seen as the grown ups.

The public are sick of Labour being a party of perpetual protest instead of a party in waiting ready to lead. The damage done by Corbyn was incalculable and this is just one more step in repairing it.

Labour 2005- 35.2%
Labour 2010- 29%
Labour 2015- 30.4%
Labour 2017- 40%
Labour 2019- 32.2%

But hey, it's all Corbyn's fault nothing to do with the tide of Brexit, nothing to do with the changing demographics of these northern towns... The result last year wasn't a buck in the trend because of Corbyn, it was business as usual for Labour apart from 2017.

The Tories look like they have a floor of 40%, how does Starmer build a coalition to get above that without Scotland and these red wall seats that aren't coming back any time soon? Right now I think the best chance he has is if Johnson runs again and Labour go with "At least we're not them" as their campaign strategy.

 

[dannyboy]

Lot can happen in 3 years...
Starmer is as unprincipled as the scummy tory government and bozo's devoted followers
What a choice eh?

Drums up absolutely zero enthusiasm. I won't be bothering to knock on any doors for him anyway. I think if there was an election tomorrow he'd probably get somewhere close to the same percentage as the Tories but still lose comfortably. Labour will continue to do well cities, no idea how they plan on winning the small towns back. Not even sure it's possible.

 

[tsubaki]

Labour 2005- 35.2%
Labour 2010- 29%
Labour 2015- 30.4%
Labour 2017- 40%
Labour 2019- 32.2%

But hey, it's all Corbyn's fault nothing to do with the tide of Brexit, nothing to do with the changing demographics of these northern towns... The result last year wasn't a buck in the trend because of Corbyn, it was business as usual for Labour apart from 2017.

The Tories look like they have a floor of 40%, how does Starmer build a coalition to get above that without Scotland and these red wall seats that aren't coming back any time soon? Right now I think the best chance he has is if Johnson runs again and Labour go with "At least we're not them" as their campaign strategy.

TBF I think the Tory floor is around 30-33%, not 40% - the past two elections have seen them been boosted by standing as the Brexit party, with the anti-Brexit vote split to a far greater extent.

As for what Starmer should do, I think it’s threefold and needs to be started ASAP.

Firstly, he needs to start drumming it into people that most of the media is not honest or unbiased - not in a Trumpian way, but just point out how obviously pro-Tory the commentary is. This should be relatively easy to do, especially for the Murdoch rags, the Mail and the Telegraph. Make them own these disasters as well as the Tories. They are going to do to him what they do to all Labour leaders, so he should get his digs in first.

Secondly, he needs to be really aggressive over this governments (and previous governments) screwups. If things like Scottish independence happen, or Gibraltar rejoining Spain, the fault has to be clearly and loudly placed with the people who caused it. The cost of Brexit has to be laid at their door. The mistakes / deliberate policy decisions that have killed people in this pandemic have to be raised. People have to be told what this lot have done, how uniquely damaging they’ve been to this country, how much divisiveness is directly down to them.

Finally, he needs to recognise that a lot of received wisdom - the red wall being irrecoverable, Scotland being lost etc - isn’t really true.

The next election could be won in a landslide provided he gets ahead of the political curve and comes up with a realistic set of alternatives to what will probably by then be a shabby English nationalist scam party.

 

[degsy]

...I dont think he does strategy. He's an intelligent idiot in that respect.

Not a problem if your advisors are up to it...in fact it's probably a plus
All you have to do is present the brief your solicitors...sorry, political advisors give you
Should be a piece of p for a Barrister

Johnson's much the same (Not a silk obvs ) and he's got an 80 seat majority

 

[ForeverBlue92]

The more I think about Sir Keir's tactics so far the more I cant help but feel Labour are certs to win the next election.

We are lucky to have him as party leader

 

[degsy]

Thats right Sir Keir - just sit back and allow the Tories to self implode.

You'll be PM before you know it ♡

Just sit back and watch them 'k it up
Then from 2022-23ish
Bring out the old '13yrs of Tory misrule'
(or 14 adjusted for inflation)
Work a treat for Harold Wilson.

'Aitch was a Saville Row, Brandy and Cigars, Oxford Don, but Put him in a Mac, give him a pipe and a glass of ale, and he kicked tory butt.

Maybe all Starmer needs is a Trinny and Suzanna / Gok make over

 

[degsy]

The more I think about Sir Keir's tactics so far the more I cant help but feel Labour are certs to win the next election.

We are lucky to have him as party leader

And you were doing so well untill that second bit.

You or I could win the next election as a labour leader...even @peteblue or @Joey66.

Maybe not @davek though, too moderate.

 

[Tubey]

Finally, he needs to recognise that a lot of received wisdom - the red wall being irrecoverable, Scotland being lost etc - isn’t really true.

The red wall means stop being so "Islington" in mindset, which the party became under Corbyn. It's doable but needs a lot of work; Starmer isn't perfect for the job of doing this but he's not the worst option either. It will be a struggle.

Regarding Scotland, he needs to paint the SNP as the allies of the Tories by locking out the only party capable of getting into power in Westminster to stop Tory rule. He needs to full-on recognise Scotland is seen with disdain by Westminster and pledge to change it in a real way that they SNP never could without independence. Again, it's a really, really tough job, because most people in Scotland would happily vote for independence now, and thus vote SNP, so the only way out for Starmer is by painting independence as impossible because no second referendum would be allowed with the perpetual Tory majority in Westminsteer, which renders the SNP pointless.

Starmer can't win a landslide at the next election because of the political landscape that now exists. Regardless of what he does, certain hangovers will persist in terms of perception with Labour (anti-semitism, infighting and so on). But he has a few advantages - Brexiteers will be dying off over the next few years, younger people becoming eligible to vote replacing them will still have Brexit in mind, the handling of COVID of course, Brexit issues and whatever else Johnson inevitably makes a disaster of over the next few years.

I can see a narrow Labour win next time, as Starmer is playing things sensibly early on.

 

[tsubaki]

The red wall means stop being so "Islington" in mindset, which the party became under Corbyn. It's doable but needs a lot of work; Starmer isn't perfect for the job of doing this but he's not the worst option either. It will be a struggle.

Regarding Scotland, he needs to paint the SNP as the allies of the Tories by locking out the only party capable of getting into power in Westminster to stop Tory rule. He needs to full-on recognise Scotland is seen with disdain by Westminster and pledge to change it in a real way that they SNP never could without independence. Again, it's a really, really tough job, because most people in Scotland would happily vote for independence now, and thus vote SNP, so the only way out for Starmer is by painting independence as impossible because no second referendum would be allowed with the perpetual Tory majority in Westminsteer, which renders the SNP pointless.

Starmer can't win a landslide at the next election because of the political landscape that now exists. Regardless of what he does, certain hangovers will persist in terms of perception with Labour (anti-semitism, infighting and so on). But he has a few advantages - Brexiteers will be dying off over the next few years, younger people becoming eligible to vote replacing them will still have Brexit in mind, the handling of COVID of course, Brexit issues and whatever else Johnson inevitably makes a disaster of over the next few years.

I can see a narrow Labour win next time, as Starmer is playing things sensibly early on.

The party became less Islington under Corbyn, not more - hence all the centrists leaving.

 

[davek]

Not a problem if your advisors are up to it...in fact it's probably a plus
All you have to do is present the brief your solicitors...sorry, political advisors give you
Should be a piece of p for a Barrister

Johnson's much the same (Not a silk obvs ) and he's got an 80 seat majority

The difference between Starmer and Johnson is that Johnson is authentic and Starmer isn't. Johnson represents a class - a very powerful dominant class; Starmer is in thrall to a series of focus groups.