Current Affairs The Labour Party

Status
Not open for further replies.
They were proven to be batshit crazy institutions that vastly assist richer folk. Just cos it benefited a few misty eyed, working class lads doesn’t mean they should be brought back ffs.

They're horrendous. In Liverpool (and on the Catholic college side of things), there used to be a big distinction between kids who went to places like SFX and St Edwards and those who didn't. That echoed the horrible old divisions between 'high Irish' and 'low Irish' in the city - a double whammy in segregation.

More generally speaking grammar schools are used to cut into class lines and cause division within, not to end class division. A by-product was maybe to give a leg up to kids from poorer backgrounds, but that wasn't its primary purpose.
 
They're horrendous. In Liverpool (and on the Catholic college side of things), there used to be a big distinction between kids who went to places like SFX and St Edwards and those who didn't. That echoed the horrible old divisions between 'high Irish' and 'low Irish' in the city - a double whammy in segregation.

More generally speaking grammar schools are used to cut into class lines and cause division within, not to end class division. A by-product was maybe to give a leg up to kids from poorer backgrounds, but that wasn't its primary purpose.
Of course. Factor in that our society is very different now with access to IT and e-learning being more likely to be available and encouraged by middle class families. It would be a recipe for disaster. Would increase social divisions more than was previously the case.
 
It's ideological. They want to encourage division, and it stigmatizes the kids left to go to secondary school / comps. It's a stain on the LP that they still wont end the 11-plus.
They were proven to be batshit crazy institutions that vastly assist richer folk. Just cos it benefited a few misty eyed, working class lads doesn’t mean they should be brought back ffs.
..."From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

In the 80s my 2 kids secondary school choice was only to the local school in Knowsley and it was near the bottom of the pack.
Using the Assisted Places Scheme

#1: Did the scheme reach the right children?​

One of the main criticisms of the scheme was that it didn’t reach the right pupils. While it was often framed as an attempt to “rescue” bright children from working class families and disadvantaged communities, the main criterion for eligibility, other than passing the school’s entrance examination, was financial need.

This meant the policy was significantly “colonised” by parents who might have been suffering short-term financial hardship (often because of divorce), but who were in many ways quite culturally and economically advantaged.

An early study of the scheme in 1989 found that fewer than 10% of those with an assisted place had fathers in manual jobs, whereas 50% had fathers in middle-class jobs. Almost all the employed mothers of assisted place pupils were also in middle-class jobs.

In general, it became clear that the majority of children who received assistance came from families with relatively strong educational inheritances, meaning the gap between what they’d have achieved without assisted places and what they managed with them was probably not as wide as imagined

Me and mrs degsy + 2 other families each put a son in for the scheme, got accepted, swotted like 'k and passed the entrance exam.
In the factory where I worked...a small cog in a major multi-national...I used to do car repairs and such for people in the office, one of the women there told me about the Company University Grant Scheme...basically for middle and higher management obvs.
She said, If you ask for a form they will eventually have to give you one, but they won't tell you about the scheme unless you ask.
So I did, I asked my Foreman - nothing, then his boss.
One day 'Big Sir'...call me Bill...was talking to me about some machine problem...how we going degs, will it be going for Monday, the usual stuff...yeah Bill no problem - hey, can you get me one of those university grant form things, I asked Frank, but he seems to have forgotten...yeah come up after you've clocked off and I'll get Carol to find you one
Sorted - eventually the lad got £4 grand a year
He finished Eddies with 9 O levs and 4 As
One of the other 2 lads, a right speccy 4 eyes went on to Cambridge to read Maths
I / We got lucky and worked the system in our favour.
But the system has to be there to be worked, there has to be pathways for a speccy 4 eyed kid with an unemployed father and 6 brothers and sisters to get to Cambridge
So don't give me any of that Ideological rollocks.
It only stigmatised the kids in your mind.
A dumbed down one low base line fits all education system stigmatises Everybody.
 
They're horrendous. In Liverpool (and on the Catholic college side of things), there used to be a big distinction between kids who went to places like SFX and St Edwards and those who didn't. That echoed the horrible old divisions between 'high Irish' and 'low Irish' in the city - a double whammy in segregation.

More generally speaking grammar schools are used to cut into class lines and cause division within, not to end class division. A by-product was maybe to give a leg up to kids from poorer backgrounds, but that wasn't its primary purpose.
Total Rollocks
2 of my lads went there and I know this not to be true.
 
Anneliese Dodds showing the chronic lack of political talent in the Labour Party. Useless.

There’s a global lack of talent politically, but Dodds is trapped by her leader and her beliefs.

If that was McDonnell he’d at least be able to say with authority that all the slurs about Labour profligacy, the magic money tree, the superiority of Tory economic policy, the inefficiency of the public sector etc were all lies, and that nearly everything good in the Government response to this has come from the very people Johnson and Cummings were going to smash.

That the right answer all along was to keep services and capacity at a suitable level, not cut it and then panic spend when they realised what a disaster was looming. That perhaps genuine investment is the way out of this.

Instead she can’t do this, just attack their competence as if the answer to this is to sensibly freeze pay for the people who actually did things to help.
 
They're horrendous. In Liverpool (and on the Catholic college side of things), there used to be a big distinction between kids who went to places like SFX and St Edwards and those who didn't. That echoed the horrible old divisions between 'high Irish' and 'low Irish' in the city - a double whammy in segregation.

More generally speaking grammar schools are used to cut into class lines and cause division within, not to end class division. A by-product was maybe to give a leg up to kids from poorer backgrounds, but that wasn't its primary purpose.

I went to SFX with a few mates, and a few others went to St Edwards, we all came from the poorest of the poor. It was a real eye opener to see how the other half lived.....
 
Mad seeing people defend grammar schools. Next we'll get how the 80s was a decent time for Liverpool if you could just buy yourself a couple of cheap houses.

I was a grammar school boy, probably did me quite well, but to suggest it was a saviour of the working class is one of the most boggling things I've heard. It plonked a few working class people in to a version of middle class and did sod all for social mobility or increased opportunities for the general working class.
 
..."From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

In the 80s my 2 kids secondary school choice was only to the local school in Knowsley and it was near the bottom of the pack.
Using the Assisted Places Scheme

#1: Did the scheme reach the right children?​

One of the main criticisms of the scheme was that it didn’t reach the right pupils. While it was often framed as an attempt to “rescue” bright children from working class families and disadvantaged communities, the main criterion for eligibility, other than passing the school’s entrance examination, was financial need.

This meant the policy was significantly “colonised” by parents who might have been suffering short-term financial hardship (often because of divorce), but who were in many ways quite culturally and economically advantaged.

An early study of the scheme in 1989 found that fewer than 10% of those with an assisted place had fathers in manual jobs, whereas 50% had fathers in middle-class jobs. Almost all the employed mothers of assisted place pupils were also in middle-class jobs.

In general, it became clear that the majority of children who received assistance came from families with relatively strong educational inheritances, meaning the gap between what they’d have achieved without assisted places and what they managed with them was probably not as wide as imagined

Me and mrs degsy + 2 other families each put a son in for the scheme, got accepted, swotted like 'k and passed the entrance exam.
In the factory where I worked...a small cog in a major multi-national...I used to do car repairs and such for people in the office, one of the women there told me about the Company University Grant Scheme...basically for middle and higher management obvs.
She said, If you ask for a form they will eventually have to give you one, but they won't tell you about the scheme unless you ask.
So I did, I asked my Foreman - nothing, then his boss.
One day 'Big Sir'...call me Bill...was talking to me about some machine problem...how we going degs, will it be going for Monday, the usual stuff...yeah Bill no problem - hey, can you get me one of those university grant form things, I asked Frank, but he seems to have forgotten...yeah come up after you've clocked off and I'll get Carol to find you one
Sorted - eventually the lad got £4 grand a year
He finished Eddies with 9 O levs and 4 As
One of the other 2 lads, a right speccy 4 eyes went on to Cambridge to read Maths
I / We got lucky and worked the system in our favour.
But the system has to be there to be worked, there has to be pathways for a speccy 4 eyed kid with an unemployed father and 6 brothers and sisters to get to Cambridge
So don't give me any of that Ideological rollocks.
It only stigmatised the kids in your mind.
A dumbed down one low base line fits all education system stigmatises Everybody.
Appreciate your response there but I’m still gonna disagree. Would write something more measured but I think my boss is already querying my work output today
 
Mad seeing people defend grammar schools. Next we'll get how the 80s was a decent time for Liverpool if you could just buy yourself a couple of cheap houses.

I was a grammar school boy, probably did me quite well, but to suggest it was a saviour of the working class is one of the most boggling things I've heard. It plonked a few working class people in to a version of middle class and did sod all for social mobility or increased opportunities for the general working class.

This is true, but I think the point was that removing them took away the opportunity for the few working class people and put them in the sod all category.
 
This is true, but I think the point was that removing them took away the opportunity for the few working class people and put them in the sod all category.

I'm not sure they did really give them many opportunities. They'll be the odd anedoctal evidence but I don't think there's any actual evidence or research to show that they provided many real opportunities. Most modern research shows them to be at best achieving nothing and at worst decreasing overall social mobility.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top