Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

Nice to see you do have an optimistic side! It is quite a big manifesto to plough through. However if they do get in hopefully they can do it all and without plunging the country into enormous debt. I would be more than annoyed if they ended up kicking the can down the road so we just end up with Austerity 2: The Revenge.

National investment bank; tax the corporations getting away with murder atm. If it were me I'd simply scrap a Trident upgrade - of course the warmongering moronic gammons would be fuming over that. £31B for something that will never get used / do anyone any good. Madness.

 

[roydo]

Wave the magic wand that buries all the faction fighting that would make governing impossible for another 4 years?

You make it sound like the Labour Party are all sitting round the camp fire together Dave. No doubt a huge chunk of the grassroots, paid up members in Liverpool are, but the PLP and wider "supporting but not paid up" rump, I am not so sure.

As for the annoying floaters in key marginals, (them that actually matter in a GE), jury deffo out, as it always is.

 

[davek]

You make it sound like the Labour Party are all sitting round the camp fire together Dave. No doubt a huge chunk of the grassroots, paid up members in Liverpool are, but the PLP and wider "supporting but not paid up" rump, I am not so sure.

As for the annoying floaters in key marginals, (them that actually matter in a GE), jury deffo out, as it always is.

Labour's schisms are not on the scale of the Tory's. Ideologically the war has been won in the LP. The Tory civil war is so visceral because ideologically they are at a crossroads.

 

[The binman chronicles]

National investment bank; tax the corporations getting away with murder atm. If it were me I'd simply scrap a Trident upgrade - of course the warmongering moronic gammons would be fuming over that. £31B for something that will never get used / do anyone any good. Madness.

It is madness of course but it unfortunately and regrettably is necessary madness.

 

[davek]

It is madness of course but it unfortunately and regrettably is necessary madness.

No, it's not. If it were then the other nation's of the world who dont have them would want them.

 

[roydo]

Labour's schisms are not on the scale of the Tory's. Ideologically the war has been won in the LP. The Tory civil war is so visceral because ideologically they are at a crossroads.

In the paid up members, absolutely agree.

But as ever, that does not mean the wider electorate are drawn to it. No matter how much they (the wider electorate) are derided by the membership for being wrong.

And thats before the awkward fact that a lot of Labour heart lands voted to Leave the EU. That circle has not really been squared.

Not saying Corbyn wont get in if there was a GE tomorrow, more that the paid up membership all violently agreeing with other means jack in the real world.

 

[davek]

In the paid up members, absolutely agree.

But as ever, that does not mean the wider electorate are drawn to it. No matter how much they (the wider electorate) are derided by the membership for being wrong.

And thats before the awkward fact that a lot of Labour heart lands voted to Leave the EU. That circle has not really been squared.

Not saying Corbyn wont get in if there was a GE tomorrow, more that the paid up membership all violently agreeing with other means jack in the real world.

I was coming at this from a purely party political issue. Ideologically the LP are in a happier place than the warring Tory tribes right now. The task of persuading the country that their vision is one they can buy into is another matter. Polls do suggest though that stuff like nationalisation of certain utilities, worker shares, greening of the economy etc are popular.

 

[roydo]

Polls do suggest though that stuff like nationalisation of certain utilities, worker shares, greening of the economy etc are popular.

Thing is, they are not that new are they? We already have loads of schemes that encourage worker owned shares, and we already do tons on green stuff.

Nationalisation of some stuff granted, could fly. Until detail is exposed.

Lets face it, if he didnt win a GE if one was soon, he never will.

 

[The binman chronicles]

No, it's not. If it were then the other nation's of the world who dont have them would want them.

There are other nations who want them. When you are small you need to be able to pack a big punch to make your enemies not want to come near you in the first place. You can't guarantee what the situation will be like in 30/40 years to be able to gamble not to. It is silly if you explained the situation to someone who knew nothing about them but it is what it is I'm afraid.

I would however try to downsize the amount of warheads and number of submarines - without telling the world that we have done this to bring down the costs to a minimum.

 

[davek]

There are other nations who want them. When you are small you need to be able to pack a big punch to make your enemies not want to come near you in the first place. You can't guarantee what the situation will be like in 30/40 years to be able to gamble not to. It is silly if you explained the situation to someone who knew nothing about them but it is what it is I'm afraid.

I would however try to downsize the amount of warheads and number of submarines - without telling the world that we have done this to bring down the costs to a minimum.

It's a nonsense argument to have those weapons. When they start flying no one wins or survives.

Just scrap them and use the cash saved in upgrades to plough into desperately underfunded areas of life that are much more worthwhile than spending on murderous weapons that will never ever be used...and which aren't even under Whitehall's control!

No brainer for any civilised country.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

My point being, where does it end. Owning two cars could be deemed a luxury, ditto anyone taking two holidays in a year. Once you allow a government to impose a supplemental tax on the basis of ownership, after already being taxed on income, there will be no stopping them.....

No, the policy is on second homes, and it's on second homes for a reason, that being a housing crisis in affordable housing.

And second homes for the most part are rather more expensive than the second car. And generally rather less necessary than a second car, what with working parents needing pay rent not forgetting privatisation of public transport and ever shrinking network extortionate cost to the end user.

So the entirely logical conclusion is that if you have the money to spend on buying another house, you'll also be able to pay a bit more tax on it to fund affordable housing.

 

[roydo]

So the entirely logical conclusion is that if you have the money to spend on buying another house, you'll also be able to pay a bit more tax on it to fund affordable housing.

You do anyrate.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

You do anyrate.

It appears we don't do enough, but no politics of envy from me, I'm happy to pay more if I'm in the position to be multiple home owner if means ending affordable housing crisis.

 

[peteblue]

No, the policy is on second homes, and it's on second homes for a reason, that being a housing crisis in affordable housing.

And second homes for the most part are rather more expensive than the second car. And generally rather less necessary than a second car, what with working parents needing pay rent not forgetting privatisation of public transport and ever shrinking network extortionate cost to the end user.

So the entirely logical conclusion is that if you have the money to spend on buying another house, you'll also be able to pay a bit more tax on it to fund affordable housing.

But they do when they buy it. They pay stamp duty, they pay legal fees, on money that they have already been taxed on. They then pay rates. This is just an envy tax, nothing more......let’s not pretend, if this nonsense were to ever happen, then all the second home owners would put the property into their other halves names, or a trust fund, apart from the wealthy Labour supporters who will be overjoyed to pay an extra tax.......

 

[peteblue]

And do what? Wave the magic wand that buries all the faction fighting that would make governing possible for another 4 years? Nonsense....as is any notion the Tories can simply change leaders from one muppet who faced the electorate and was rejected to another muppet who hasn't even asked them to give them a parliamentary majority.

This government right now is a zombie government. Imagine that staggering around wailing for another four years?!

Impossible. 2022 is not going to be the date of the next election. The Brexit deal will get done then it's all about calling the next election at the right time in the short term. Nothing surer than that.

It’s not though Dave, and Labour can do sod all about it. Only the conservatives can force an election, and they won’t do it........