Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

Why do they need to offer a vision of the future four years before an election, and when we are faced with the crisis of the century so far? Noone is going to listen at the moment.

The time to do it is when its obvious where this government has led us, with this track and trace system especially.

Erm, it's sort of part of being a political party that you have a political programme. Wouldn't you say?

It's like saying a group of people are a Formula One racing team when they dont have a Formula One car.

 

[tsubaki]

Erm, it's sort of part of being a political party that you have a political programme. Wouldn't you say?

It's like saying a group of people are a Formula One racing team when they dont have a Formula One car.

they dont have a F1 car for a big chunk of off-season though; they are building, improving or developing a new one

I agree Starmer should absolutely be developing one, but to say he should have one now whilst this is going on is madness - not least because by the time its put to the test we do not know what is going to be on offer. All we can guess is that the next election might be fought on the question of competence.

 

[davek]

they dont have a F1 car for a big chunk of off-season though; they are building, improving or developing a new one

I agree Starmer should absolutely be developing one, but to say he should have one now whilst this is going on is madness - not least because by the time its put to the test we do not know what is going to be on offer. All we can guess is that the next election might be fought on the question of competence.

You're perhaps confusing manifesto with a vision?

The latter isn't handcuffed to a political event, it's a chance to set out your critique of where we are and then state where we should be going.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Underlines the level of virulent anti-socialist scum in the PLP....but they are the tip of the iceberg. For example, Ian Murray the Tory-lite Scottish Labour MP.

And they are emboldened now by having one of their own as leader.

Reading your posts, Dave, you'd think that Labour has historically been a radical socialist party that has been hijacked by a few moderate/centrists

 

[tsubaki]

You're perhaps confusing manifesto with a vision?

The latter isn't handcuffed to a political event, it's a chance to set out your critique of where we are and then state where we should be going.

If you use that definition though, then surely that is what Starmer (and Labour) are doing? Supporting the measures brought in on scientific advice whilst slating the demonstrable incompetence and corruption of the government covers where we are and where we should be going (ie: moving from inepitutude to competent handling of this).

 

[davek]

Reading your posts, Dave, you'd think that Labour has historically been a radical socialist party that has been hijacked by a few moderate/centrists

Until the Kinnock ball bag took control in the 80s it was a vehicle for holding back the advance of the market into people's lives and destroying communities, and also for taking a bigger slice of the pie for working people. Not exactly a revolutionary programme, but absolute clear daylight between that and the insipid piss offered up by Tory lite turds like Blair and Starmer.

 

[davek]

If you use that definition though, then surely that is what Starmer (and Labour) are doing? Supporting the measures brought in on scientific advice whilst slating the demonstrable incompetence and corruption of the government covers where we are and where we should be going (ie: moving from inepitutude to competent handling of this).

That's just offering a preferred technocratic solution to a pandemic. I'm talking above and beyond that. He has needed to tell us what he sees this country looking like after Labour take power. He hasn't done that and the suspicion from most is that he's just a box ticking careerist who has no ideology.

 

[Tea_drinker]

 

[roydo]

That's just offering a preferred technocratic solution to a pandemic. I'm talking above and beyond that. He has needed to tell us what he sees this country looking like after Labour take power. He hasn't done that and the suspicion from most is that he's just a box ticking careerist who has no ideology.

Meanwhile, in the real world, folk are worried about next week.

 

[tsubaki]

That's just offering a preferred technocratic solution to a pandemic. I'm talking above and beyond that. He has needed to tell us what he sees this country looking like after Labour take power. He hasn't done that and the suspicion from most is that he's just a box ticking careerist who has no ideology.

Being the competent person when the government is being incompetent is a sensible position to take, though - and as I said above, if he (and Labour) started talking about what the country should look like after winning an election now then most would probably think that they were chatting rubbish.

There is absolutely a time to do it, and it will be a lot more powerful if you can use this pandemic as the example of why these changes have to be made.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Until the Kinnock ball bag took control in the 80s it was a vehicle for holding back the advance of the market into people's lives and destroying communities, and also for taking a bigger slice of the pie for working people. Not exactly a revolutionary programme, but absolute clear daylight between that and the insipid piss offered up by Tory lite turds like Blair and Starmer.

Do you not see that in many respects the party has historically supported British Imperialism and with Trade Unions partnered with Capitalism for the economic benefit of the workers?

 

[degsy]

Erm, it's sort of part of being a political party that you have a political programme. Wouldn't you say?

It's like saying a group of people are a Formula One racing team when they dont have a Formula One car.

If a week is a long time in politics, then an election in 4yrs if a lifetime
Who knows where the goalposts will be in say 3.5 yrs.

Continued and constant sensibly targeted opposition rather than blanket opposition for opposition sake will, in 3.5yrs, more or less define your policy for the up coming election

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Why do they need to offer a vision of the future four years before an election, and when we are faced with the crisis of the century so far? Noone is going to listen at the moment.

The time to do it is when its obvious where this government has led us, with this track and trace system especially.

Totally agree up against 80 seat majority, I don't expect any meaty Labour policy until 2023. We are now entering the the sunny uplands of Johnsons Brexit Britain, democracy dictates, suck it up buttercups.

 

[davek]

If a week is a long time in politics, then an election in 4yrs if a lifetime
Who knows where the goalposts will be in say 3.5 yrs.

Continued and constant sensibly targeted opposition rather than blanket opposition for opposition sake will, in 3.5yrs, more or less define your policy for the up coming election

I'm asking for a road map, not what Starmer thinks is wrong about the Tory approach to Covid19. I can see that with my own two eyes.

What is this stuffed shirt's ideology, his vision, his society?

 

[davek]

Do you not see that in many respects the party has historically supported British Imperialism and with Trade Unions partnered with Capitalism for the economic benefit of the workers?

There's always been a pragmatic side of the labour movement ('top hatted trade unionism' etc) and an ideological side of it. The latter were indeed in bed with imperialist interests before the second world war. But post war the trade unions and the LP were almost completely behind the various anti-colonialist / nationalist movements in the old empire, and they were 100% committed to public ownership of key industries and the need for a mixed economy.

This LP under Starmer stands (as far as we know because the coward wont tell us what his vision exactly is) in the tradition of Blair and Brown and their stable mate Thatcherites.

If he isn't, let's hear his thoughts.