Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Tubey]

I’ve just asked him a perfectly reasonable question which he completely ignored to go on one of his ill informed rants.

He does this all the time. Anytime he’s asked about where he gets his information, or challenged on his views he doesn’t address it.

No one is saying he can’t have an opinion, just some people think his opinion is seriously ill informed and want to challenge that.

Speaking of "ill informed rants", you said "the influence the right has on social media and how it’s shaping people views with constant misinformation"... when the reality is the left do this on a massive scale that totally dwarfs the right.

The right dominate traditional print media and things like radio "shock jock" programs; the left dominate Twitter. They're all as bad as eachother with extremist propaganda.

Why I said "I don't know why you bother" is because so many people just see the extremes and abuses of the "other side" and are completely blind to anything done by "their own side". So there's little point discussing it anymore. As he says, you have the left verbally assaulting Kuenssberg/the BBC for obvious Tory bias, and the right on things like TalkRadio insisting the BBC have "gone woke" and massively biased to the left. The truth is neither of those things and the BBC is basically doing what the BBC has always done, but people don't care about discussing it with nuance or balance; there simply has to be a correct "side", one side has to win at all costs, thoroughly, completely.

So when you say he has a fundamental misunderstanding of politics and then in the same breath display your own fundamental misunderstanding of politics, I just end up shaking my head.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I’ve just asked him a perfectly reasonable question which he completely ignored to go on one of his ill informed rants.

He does this all the time. Anytime he’s asked about where he gets his information, or challenged on his views he doesn’t address it.

No one is saying he can’t have an opinion, just some people think his opinion is seriously ill informed and want to challenge that.

Thats what religious fundamentalists claim when they dont agree with another religion or atheist.

I cant debate any further with fundamentalists.

 

[coollino]

If the far right include people like Hitler

Ok, fair enough.

Just one more question, though. How would you describe the far left? What does it represent to you?

Oh and I’m not talking about mainstream media here, I’m talking about Facebook, Twitter etc. I feel like a lot of your opinions are shaped from what you read and see on the internet and that’s dangerous.

He constantly ignores that question as he means moderate left (or right) but is sadly now too far gone on some Lee Rugby Facebook group.

 

[Kenshin]

No mate, Labour traditionally the most left of the three, Lib Dems centre-left normally but basically a "party for hire" since Clegg with no moral compass whatsoever, and the Tories are traditionally centre-right.

Labour have generally only achieved electoral success in this country when they are centre-left - looking after workers, the lower classes etc. whilst reining in the excesses of extreme socialism. The country as a whole is centre-right and therefore more tolerant of swings to the "far right" by the Tories than they are with swings to the "far left" with Labour.

Cheers for the explanation man.

Never really looked into labour as being a scouser I never really thought into looking into their history after 1906.

Oddly enough I know a fair bit about conservatives in the 1800s so go figure.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I’ve just asked him a perfectly reasonable question which he completely ignored to go on one of his ill informed rants.

He does this all the time. Anytime he’s asked about where he gets his information, or challenged on his views he doesn’t address it.

No one is saying he can’t have an opinion, just some people think his opinion is seriously ill informed and want to challenge that.

Out of interest, mate, how would you describe the core team that Corbyn assembled, moderate or more radical leaning?

 

[Charro]

Out of interest, mate, how would you describe the core team that Corbyn assembled, moderate or more radical leaning?

It was certainly more radical leaning, but I wouldn’t say it was far left.

That’s the issue today. The middle ground has been lost and people are too quick to label people far left and far right.

Something both sides are guilty of.

I would class Corbyns labour as left wing socialism that unfortunately allowed the far left too much influence.

Same way the tories are right wing but are very happy to allow the far right to do their dirty work for them.

I’m not far left myself but was a Corbyn supporter. I actually despair more and more these days at the behaviour of politicians I used to side with and find myself moving further away from the left.

 

[Tubey]

Cheers for the explanation man.

Never really looked into labour as being a scouser I never really thought into looking into their history after 1906.

Oddly enough I know a fair bit about conservatives in the 1800s so go figure.

Key is in the name Labour - socialism, protection for workers, borne from unions, protection from the excesses of the elite. In theory, there's every reason for any inner city/industrial stronghold to vote for Labour and despise the Tories.

But under Corbyn Labour went for a particular brand of left wing socialism which is best summed up by the phrase "Islington Socialism" - it isn't the same as "champagne socialism" as they don't preach from a position of wealth as such, but instead they preach from an ideological position of purity where they don't recognise the reality "on the ground" in the north etc. So what they are saying has little resonance with the "normal" working man and woman, despite claiming to speak for them. Thus you get policies like "free broadband" when most of the working class prefer to pay for something decent than get something crap for free. It's a 70s mindset applied to the modern day.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

It was certainly more radical leaning, but I wouldn’t say it was far left.

That’s the issue today. The middle ground has been lost and people are too quick to label people far left and far right.

Something both sides are guilty of.

I would class Corbyns labour as left wing socialism that unfortunately allowed the far left too much influence.

Same way the tories are right wing but are very happy to allow the far right to do their dirty work for them.

I’m not far left myself but was a Corbyn supporter. I actually despair more and more these days at the behaviour of politicians I used to side with and find myself moving further away from the left.

The problem was that the team he assembled came from the left of the left. Stalinists, Communists, etc, people with political views that would rightfully be identified as radical and not a status quo approach. And these people shaped his agenda.

Totally agree about the Tories and the ERG. A self-serving group of shysters.

Also agree that politics, in general, feels broken.

 

[Charro]

Speaking of "ill informed rants", you said "the influence the right has on social media and how it’s shaping people views with constant misinformation"... when the reality is the left do this on a massive scale that totally dwarfs the right.

The right dominate traditional print media and things like radio "shock jock" programs; the left dominate Twitter. They're all as bad as eachother with extremist propaganda.

Why I said "I don't know why you bother" is because so many people just see the extremes and abuses of the "other side" and are completely blind to anything done by "their own side". So there's little point discussing it anymore. As he says, you have the left verbally assaulting Kuenssberg/the BBC for obvious Tory bias, and the right on things like TalkRadio insisting the BBC have "gone woke" and massively biased to the left. The truth is neither of those things and the BBC is basically doing what the BBC has always done, but people don't care about discussing it with nuance or balance; there simply has to be a correct "side", one side has to win at all costs, thoroughly, completely.

So when you say he has a fundamental misunderstanding of politics and then in the same breath display your own fundamental misunderstanding of politics, I just end up shaking my head.

Interested to see where you think I have a fundamental misunderstanding of politics.

 

[Charro]

The problem was that the team he assembled came from the left of the left. Stalinists, Communists, etc, people with political views that would rightfully be identified as radical and not a status quo approach. And these people shaped his agenda.

Totally agree about the Tories and the ERG. A self-serving group of shysters.

Also agree that politics, in general, feels broken.

Yeah, both parties are perfectly happy to let the extremists in to do their dirty work for them.

Hopefully that’s to change now we have starmer and whilst I don’t want him to purge the left, as labour needs to be towards the left, he needs to address the extremism of the previous regime that still lingers.

 

[dead_soft]

I know crazy how someone can have different views and be open minded on numerous issues.

As a hardline leftist its something you could never grasp as all your opinions are from the same school of thought.

I do BJJ and did Karate as a kid and its the same in martial arts - you go to one dojo and they claim their form of teaching is the best and all other martial arts are not the right path.

You go to a mosque then a church and it'll be the same thing

Heck we do it everyday as football fans - our club is special, born not manufactured etc.

Until you realise everything you believe is largely based of who is telling you it you'll never understand that there isn't a right or wrong, that Labour are our saviours and the Tories were crafted by the Devil himself.

I’m really not hard line leftist, and I’m not sure you’ve even got much knowledge of what my economic views are to say that?

You then go on to argue something against I’m not sure who? It just doesn’t make much sense, really. Yet, for some reason this is all supposed to back up the idea you are very knowledgable about politics? Despite showing, repeatedly, that you don’t know what constitutes left, right, centre, Communist or Fascist

 

[Deleted member 48881]

My thoughts exactly, why do we always fight each other?!

 

[JimmyJeffers]

lol lol lol

 

[dead_soft]

Speaking of "ill informed rants", you said "the influence the right has on social media and how it’s shaping people views with constant misinformation"... when the reality is the left do this on a massive scale that totally dwarfs the right.

The right dominate traditional print media and things like radio "shock jock" programs; the left dominate Twitter. They're all as bad as eachother with extremist propaganda.

Why I said "I don't know why you bother" is because so many people just see the extremes and abuses of the "other side" and are completely blind to anything done by "their own side". So there's little point discussing it anymore. As he says, you have the left verbally assaulting Kuenssberg/the BBC for obvious Tory bias, and the right on things like TalkRadio insisting the BBC have "gone woke" and massively biased to the left. The truth is neither of those things and the BBC is basically doing what the BBC has always done, but people don't care about discussing it with nuance or balance; there simply has to be a correct "side", one side has to win at all costs, thoroughly, completely.

So when you say he has a fundamental misunderstanding of politics and then in the same breath display your own fundamental misunderstanding of politics, I just end up shaking my head.

Cambridge Analytica and the rise of Trump and Brexit suggests otherwise?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Speaking of "ill informed rants", you said "the influence the right has on social media and how it’s shaping people views with constant misinformation"... when the reality is the left do this on a massive scale that totally dwarfs the right.

The right dominate traditional print media and things like radio "shock jock" programs; the left dominate Twitter. They're all as bad as eachother with extremist propaganda.

I don’t know about this like. Surely it is different for everyone depending on who you follow etc. Also think you’re better than the ‘they’re as bad as each other’ line