Current Affairs The Labour Party

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NilSatisOptimum said:
Ok I'm in the mood to compromise, left leaning when it actually dose not matter. Get what your saying about Cooper, the sickly named Blair middle way. As we all know the trouble with Blair, his politics cost many hundreds of thousands their lives, granted not in the UK, so if universal morality is not your thing, Blair as is Coopers, the politics is perfect.
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TBF Blair was at least good at politics and had studied and then worked at what he thought needed to be done to change Labour; the generation of PLP "leaders" of Cooper's vintage (her, Ed Balls, Miliband D, Purnell etc) didn't do any of that after 2010 or, shamefully, after 2015. They just thought that they knew best, that only them being in charge would work and have as a consequence largely disappeared.
 
tsubaki said:
TBF Blair was at least good at politics and had studied and then worked at what he thought needed to be done to change Labour; the generation of PLP "leaders" of Cooper's vintage (her, Ed Balls, Miliband D, Purnell etc) didn't do any of that after 2010 or, shamefully, after 2015. They just thought that they knew best, that only them being in charge would work and have as a consequence largely disappeared.
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Good at politics, Mmmm. I cannot reconcile that with the loss of life he is responsible for. His politics shaped the Middle East to this day, it's not very good. Had he the conviction to stay for the long haul in Iraq his legacy may have much different. And we could concentrate on his domestic policy, instead it's his war legacy, a very easy and justifiable target to take him down.
 
NilSatisOptimum said:
Good at politics, Mmmm. I cannot reconcile that with the loss of life he is responsible for. His politics shaped the Middle East to this day, it's not very good. Had he the conviction to stay for the long haul in Iraq his legacy may have much different. And we could concentrate on his domestic policy, instead it's his war legacy, a very easy and justifiable target to take him down.
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"good at politics" in the technical sense - he was able to gradually take over the party, change its programme, win internal arguments and struggles and so on.
 
Black Belt Jones said:
Ever hear the theory that Hatton and Sargill were MI5 plants, shagpuss? It's admittedly far-fetched, but based on the fact that Thatcher could not have chosen two better enemies to have. Idiots of such unbelievable usefulness to the Tory agenda that it seems they must have been expressly invented for that purpose.
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I think Scargill's heart was in the right place but lacked strategic nouse. Thatcher had planned to take on and defeat the miners. She didn't want a repeat of what happened to Heath in the 1970s. When they walked out, she was ready.
I think there were some MI5 agents within the NUM who undermined Scargill. Sadly, once the miners were defeated, the rest of the working class were easy prey.

I actually enjoy Hatton's column in the Echo. He talks a lot of sense. He may not have had the integrity of a Tony Mulhearn or Eric Heffer, but he's far preferable to the New Labour crowd. Yes also a big Blue so that helps too.
 
tsubaki said:
"good at politics" in the technical sense - he was able to gradually take over the party, change its programme, win internal arguments and struggles and so on.
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If it's a measure domestic technical ability in managing the machinations of labour party then yes. However, his political legacy is shot to pieces and it's what all politicians strive for is legacy. Its why he keeps popping up for validation of his premierships, he absolutely yearns it. Tony Blair institute for Global Change, what more is there to say!
 
shagpuss said:
I think Scargill's heart was in the right place but lacked strategic nouse. Thatcher had planned to take on and defeat the miners. She didn't want a repeat of what happened to Heath in the 1970s. When they walked out, she was ready.
I think there were some MI5 agents within the NUM who undermined Scargill. Sadly, once the miners were defeated, the rest of the working class were easy prey.

I actually enjoy Hatton's column in the Echo. He talks a lot of sense. He may not have had the integrity of a Tony Mulhearn or Eric Heffer, but he's far preferable to the New Labour crowd. Yes also a big Blue so that helps too.
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Scargill was a nasty piece of work. My friend's dad was one of the first people to distribute VHS films in this country and got very rich from it. He was friends with Scargill and Scargill wanted him to back him financially. My friend's dad refused so Scargill put about the story that he was behind the "video nasties" panic of the '80's. He was trashed in the papers, it ruined him and he ended up in an early grave as a pauper as a result, leaving two young kids behind. Very sad.
 
I've just listened to that PMQ session. Starmer doing the Tory's bidding for them by "welcoming the increase in testing" (though questioning actual take up figures), and stating that the 100,000 testing figure HanCOCK promised was "only ever a staging post and the exact date [it is reached] is not as important as some would wish to think".

The leader of the opposition at a time of meltdown and carnage in the country brought about mostly by the government he's in opposition to.

The feller is 'kin pathetic.
 
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