Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Bruce Wayne]

It's a parliamentary party focussed on winning elections with no power to eradicate Tory policies or roll them back. You're asking for the impossible.

More properly you should be asking what the Labour Movement are doing for local constituents. That's what Momentum do: organise food banks, hold police authorities to account for their relations with BAME communities, picket where they can for such things as drawing attention to hospital closures, anti-fracking campaigns etc etc. Regardless of Momentum that's always been part of the LP tradition through organisations like trades unions and the co-operatve movement.

I suggest you look up the definition and purpose of the official opposition. I've no doubt that local groups do an awful lot, just as Frank Field did plenty locally, but the job of the opposition is to oppose, and influence policy via that opposition. It's not to sit back and watch Rome burn because they know they're the next batsman in.

The Liberal Democrats exist, and are at 6% in the polls - their entire campaign right now is as the "stop Brexit" party and have ultimately failed to win widespread popular support.

As for the price caps on energy firms, I agree that it doesn't go far enough. Energy poverty is of huge concern for many people (especially OAPs who often have to make the choice between eating or heating), and having half-arsed caps doesn't go far enough, but for the Conservatives to even admit that the current system is failing is a huge step forward from what we have seen post-Foot.

That's switching topics though isn't it? I'm well aware of how poor the LibDems have been doing, but I asked you what Labour have done on Brexit as the opposition in the house, and whether you're happy with what they've done? The Lib Dems have a handful of MPs, so are sadly rather irrelevant.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's a parliamentary party focussed on winning elections with no power to eradicate Tory policies or roll them back. You're asking for the impossible.

More properly you should be asking what the Labour Movement are doing for local constituents. That's what Momentum do: organise food banks, hold police authorities to account for their relations with BAME communities, picket where they can for such things as drawing attention to hospital closures, anti-fracking campaigns etc etc. Regardless of Momentum that's always been part of the LP tradition through organisations like trades unions and the co-operatve movement.

I suggest you look up the definition and purpose of the official opposition. I've no doubt that local groups do an awful lot, just as Frank Field did plenty locally, but the job of the opposition is to oppose, and influence policy via that opposition. It's not to sit back and watch Rome burn because they know they're the next batsman in.

The Liberal Democrats exist, and are at 6% in the polls - their entire campaign right now is as the "stop Brexit" party and have ultimately failed to win widespread popular support.

As for the price caps on energy firms, I agree that it doesn't go far enough. Energy poverty is of huge concern for many people (especially OAPs who often have to make the choice between eating or heating), and having half-arsed caps doesn't go far enough, but for the Conservatives to even admit that the current system is failing is a huge step forward from what we have seen post-Foot.

That's switching topics though isn't it? I'm well aware of how poor the LibDems have been doing, but I asked you what Labour have done on Brexit as the opposition in the house, and whether you're happy with what they've done? The Lib Dems have a handful of MPs, so are sadly rather irrelevant.

 

[Number_25]

I suggest you look up the definition and purpose of the official opposition. I've no doubt that local groups do an awful lot, just as Frank Field did plenty locally, but the job of the opposition is to oppose, and influence policy via that opposition. It's not to sit back and watch Rome burn because they know they're the next batsman in.

Are you telling me that, in terms of policy, there's no difference between the Tories and Labour?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Are you telling me that, in terms of policy, there's no difference between the Tories and Labour?

Not at all, I'm saying that Labour have made very little impression on the policies of the government.

 

[davek]

I suggest you look up the definition and purpose of the official opposition. I've no doubt that local groups do an awful lot, just as Frank Field did plenty locally, but the job of the opposition is to oppose, and influence policy via that opposition. It's not to sit back and watch Rome burn because they know they're the next batsman in.

Oppose what? Brexit and demand another referendum? That's what this is about for you? The country voted on it. The Leavers won. I wish it wasn't the outcome, but there you go. That's democracy.

 

[flibbyflob]

Tony Blair helped kill well over half a million people in his Iraq War crusade...and he's claiming to be a moderate.

He really should be on death row waitng for a lethal dosage if there was any justice in this world. At the very least he should be following the likes of Milosevic into The Hague for his war crimes trial.

I just love it that every time he opens his gob when Corbyn is under a bit of pressure he gets told by so many people to shut up and support for Corbyn swells even more. Everything he wants to do is ruined by his own stinking murderous past coming back to bite him in the ass.

 

[The binman chronicles]

What would an effective opposition look like to you then mate?

I'm also not sure who these 2 political parties where who collapsed that should have benefitted Labour. Who were they?

In the last election the vote for both the Lib Dems and UKIP collapsed. The Lib Dems because they got in bed with the Tories which imho means a lot of them must have swung back to Labour. The UKIP vote could have been shared between the larger parties but whatever got added to Labour helps explain why their share of the vote spiked. Along with a the Tories in a mess it was always going to create a boost no matter how competent or not they looked.

To me Labour should seem together, there should be minimal in-fighting and questioning of the leader, any bad things should be dealt with swiftly and not let drag on (You know what I mean by that!). I still don't see that Corbyn has made peace with the centre left folk or offer policies that would help broker that.

They should also be challenging the government on all fronts and you just don't seem to hear that from them, it is meek and very much like when Blair was able to swot away questions from Hague, IDS and Howard. I know this is a knife edge view depending on how you voted but I would also like to see a socialist party attack brexit for the damage it will do to the economy and services and try to do whatever it takes to make the deal better or to pressurise a pull out of brexit altogether/2nd referendum if an agreement can't be found.

 

[davek]

I just love it that every time he opens his gob when Corbyn is under a bit of pressure he gets told by so many people to shut up and support for Corbyn swells even more. Everything he wants to do is ruined by his own stinking murderous past coming back to bite him in the ass.

That's true. It is a boost for Corbyn when he speaks. It underlines what a bunch of murderous con-men the Labour Party right wing are in office...and some of those very people are still in the party and undermining him now. They have blood right up to their elbows and they use non-issues like "anti-semitism" to detract from him, and accuse him and his supporters of "bullying"....bullying FFS - the gang of murderers who helped butcher half a million men women and children in the Middle East.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's true. It is a boost for Corbyn when he speaks. It underlines what a bunch of murderous con-men the Labour Party right wing are in office...and some of those very people are still in the party and undermining him now. They have blood right up to their elbows and they use non-issues like "anti-semitism" to detract from him, and accuse him and his supporters of "bullying"....bullying FFS - the gang of murderers who helped butcher half a million men women and children in the Middle East.

This is your compromise @Number_25 ? Murderous con men.

 

[davek]

This is your compromise @Number_25 ? Murderous con men.

What more adeqaute description suits Blair and his Iraq War ilk? "Collateral damage-making statesmen"?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

A Blairite moderate - that means they're just up to their knees in blood.

It's a ringing endorsement for Corbyn, what better way to end a good week than being criticized by Blair.

 

[Clint Planet]

Oppose what? Brexit and demand another referendum? That's what this is about for you? The country voted on it. The Leavers won. I wish it wasn't the outcome, but there you go. That's democracy.

The Labour leadership can't oppose Brexit until there is a significant groundswell of vocal opposition from the grassroots, hopefully coupled with visible, tangible evidence of a noticeable swing of opinion across the country. Any move from the top would be seized upon as anti-democratic and would damage the party hugely - and it would fail. It has to come from the bottom.

Fortunately, it's looking more likely that that significant mood-change is beginning to happen.

 

[The binman chronicles]

All this war crimes and murderous crap is exactly why Labour are doomed to failure. Even if they get elected it wouldn't last as a left wing party that doesn't serve the middle ground will be turfed out in next to no time.

We went to war off the back of a seismic event, it wasn't correct in the end but that is easy to say with hindsight. Bottom line is Blair took the party to win three GEs but he is a monster, however Corbyn is the best thing to happen despite already losing one to probably the weakest Tory government in history?? As a party Labour need to own the good and bad things Blair and the government at the time did as a collective and make the party electable (& not just for one election that people have voted out just to give a bloody nose) by claiming the centre and the left. Or stay out on the sidelines and throw rocks into the sea. Your choice people.

 

[davek]

All this war crimes and murderous crap is exactly why Labour are doomed to failure. Even if they get elected it wouldn't last as a left wing party that doesn't serve the middle ground will be turfed out in next to no time.

We went to war off the back of a seismic event, it wasn't correct in the end but that is easy to say with hindsight. Bottom line is Blair took the party to win three GEs but he is a monster, however Corbyn is the best thing to happen despite already losing one to probably the weakest Tory government in history?? As a party Labour need to own the good and bad things Blair and the government at the time did as a collective and make the party electable (& not just for one election that people have voted out just to give a bloody nose) by claiming the centre and the left. Or stay out on the sidelines and throw rocks into the sea. Your choice people.

It's not winning power it's what you do with it that matters. You think three terms of Blair/Brown were a big step forward?

 

[Number_25]

It's not winning power it's what you do with it that matters. You think three terms of Blair/Brown were a big step forward?

Contextualisation of the time period wouldn't go a miss here. Things had radically shifted toward the right, and the Labour Party needed reform in order to get into power. I accept that.

And for the supposed moderates, things are radically shifting back toward the left, and the Labour Party needs to reform to get into power. Accept that.