Current Affairs The Labour Party

[JordanGT4]

I'm not here to kinkshame.

Very noble of you in these turbulent times

 

[Number_25]

Very noble of you in these turbulent times

I'm more of a Erotic Asphyxiation kinda guy myself.

 

[roydo]

So you'd agree that he shifted the party toward the right, in order to do away with concerns that the party had become too left wing - and thus incompatible with the views of the wider public?

I guess you could call that a move to the right, as any move away from the left is defacto a move to the right,

Yes. By being less hard left, you shift to the right. That does not make you a right wing party though. It makes you more electable.

 

[roydo]

That is true, though it should really be pointed out why people think someone they've never met and probably will never meet has charisma, or aren't scared by them. It is after all something that not unconnected to why Blair "got through" to them whilst Kinnock and Foot didn't as well.

Yep. Tis weird in a way. I know someone who was in the same room as Bill Clinton once, and she said he was by a mile the most charismatic person she had ever seen. Never spoke to him, but his presence was felt.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Yep. Tis weird in a way. I know someone who was in the same room as Bill Clinton once, and she said he was by a mile the most charismatic person she had ever seen. Never spoke to him, but his presence was felt.

Old Bill had it for sure, he could talk the pants off of just about anyone...oops shouldn't go down that road!

 

[roydo]

Old Bill had it for sure, he could talk the pants off of just about anyone...oops shouldn't go down that road!

Haha! But its true nevertheless. Blair, Cameron, had it. May not so much.
I have seen Liam Fox in my local, and he deffo doesnt have it!

 

[davek]

Contextualisation of the time period wouldn't go a miss here. Things had radically shifted toward the right, and the Labour Party needed reform in order to get into power. I accept that.

And for the supposed moderates, things are radically shifting back toward the left, and the Labour Party needs to reform to get into power. Accept that.

I dont. What the Blairite infiltrators did was to double down on the Thatcher/Major era. The Third Way was just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. The LP usurpers went full steam ahead attacking Trade Unions and deregulating the economy. Basically they were the reserve XI brought in when the Tories became unelectable.

 

[davek]

With the best will in the world. Yes! It is all about winning as you can't do naff all else. Anyone can be dignified, principled and learned in opposition, only when you get power do you understand the compromises that have to be made to be able govern well. You can't have it all your way, you can't just serve half of the people. New Labour was created because of that and look they won elections. I think services/welfare were looked after a little bit better than they are at the moment.

I misspoke: "not JUST about winning" is what I meant.

 

[Number_25]

Yes. By being less hard left, you shift to the right. That does not make you a right wing party though. It makes you more electable.

Well done, you just described the overton window.

 

[roydo]

Well done, you just described the overton window.

Thanks.

 

[Number_25]

Thanks.

You get my point?

 

[Number_25]

I dont. What the Blairite infiltrators did was to double down on the Thatcher/Major era. The Third Way was just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. The LP usurpers went full steam ahead attacking Trade Unions and deregulating the economy. Basically they were the reserve XI brought in when the Tories became unelectable.

That's your opinion, and you're free to have it.

 

[roydo]

You get my point?

Yeah. I think we agree.

Blair made the party electable by (shock) appealing to the centre ground/shifted from the left.

And despite Corbyn being told by all his supporters he is brilliant, unless he does similar, he will struggle to win power.

And as an aside, by luck or judgement, the calibre and standing of many of Blairs cabinet members were way, way superior to the current Labour intake.

 

[davek]

That's your opinion, and you're free to have it.

Well - as you state above - the momentum has shifted to the Labour left and an acceptance of that follows on from accepting that the Labour right / centre-right got it so wrong. One is the corollary of the other.

 

[Number_25]

Yeah. I think we agree.

Blair made the party electable by (shock) appealing to the centre ground/shifted from the left.

And despite Corbyn being told by all his supporters he is brilliant, unless he does similar, he will struggle to win power.

And as an aside, by luck or judgement, the calibre and standing of many of Blairs cabinet members were way, way superior to the current Labour intake.

I'm suggesting that the shift to the left is required, in the same way as the shift to the right was in the mid-1980s.