Current Affairs The Labour Party

[NilSatisOptimum]

And return to opposing the eu as corbyn and his acolytes always have. Bye bye general election.

There's a reason Morning Star has a readership of 10,000 and the Guardian in the millions. This vision of a socialist utopia just isn't that popular.

But it is,the One nation Tory crowing before to the run up to last election was loud, 100 seat majority, was easily an average May was going to win by. Had Corbyn languishing in the polls, until the purdah period kicked and the media had to play fair. Other happenings played a role Mays ability to actualy come across like a Tory. Tory flagship Social Care policy, woke the nation from their individualism and realised it rather liked the idea of socialist principles to pay for their older care. And of course NHS Police Education etc, all ideals in Social Democracy funded by wealth distribution.

Guardian and Morning star, must be baby boomer thing.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

be interesting to see how Labour MP's word their reaction to this story:

UN says Israel's killings at Gaza protests may amount to war crimes

I think I would be classed an anti-Semite if I lived in Gaza as Palestinian. And generally I would not take to kindly to those who defended the Israel Government actions either. Maybe the UN are also anti Semites now?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Iraq war,slightly more than a "taint".

I think you would be surprised at actually how many people would be unperturbed by it. Of course it isn't a great news story by any means but strip away anti-war brigade, the conspiracy theorists and generally people who wanted to harm the government to see them out (Tories etc. But even they voted for it so they couldn't say it was all Blair's fault) then I think most people would be meh about the whole fiasco.

 

[Tubey]

Like I said, no idea if Lammy has read this or other works like it, but there is a long history of race being a explicit and subsequently implicit part of western aid.

Maybe so, but it's historic and not in keeping with the times we're in now.

Look at Lammy's Twitter feed this morning and afternoon - he's a complete racist.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Sorry mate, are you being serious?

You could try just answering the question with a sound argument attached. And one that doesn't involve just a small percentage of people like the membership or trade unions who are always going to be way further to the left than a centre-left government can be.

 

[davek]

....that’s the Labour Party you want, but it’s not the Labour Party myself and others want. I’d much prefer Tom Watson in my Labour Party.

You have an opinion, but it is an opinion, it doesn’t mean you’re right.

I respect your opinion. I'm merely pointing out on this thread that the man presenting himself as the clean pair of hands is far from having them. He's got a record of trying to overthrow this leadersip - democratically elected once and then twice after HE orchestrated a new leadership contest; and he's a man who has taken cash bungs to the tune of half a million quid to defend a known Nazi admirer and SS uniform wearing freak called Max Mosley; oh, and for good measure, blackguarded Leon Brittan that he was a rampant paedophile...something he later had to admit wasn't true.

But please, dont let me deter you from placing your faith in this paragon of virtue and democracy.

 

[davek]

You could try just answering the question with a sound argument attached. And one that doesn't involve just a small percentage of people like the membership or trade unions who are always going to be way further to the left than a centre-left government can be.

Blairism? Alive?

Go and take a look at the nations reaction to the Chilcott Inquiry.

Itls dead as a doornail. Blairism is just a creed now hawked about by a group of about 70 bitter twisted pro-Zionists MPs in the LP who were happy to see Arab regimes toppled in his murderous wars that cost about a million lives.

Is that sound enough for you?

 

[davids]

I think you would be surprised at actually how many people would be unperturbed by it. Of course it isn't a great news story by any means but strip away anti-war brigade, the conspiracy theorists and generally people who wanted to harm the government to see them out (Tories etc. But even they voted for it so they couldn't say it was all Blair's fault) then I think most people would be meh about the whole fiasco.

Very true it's one for history and how future generations view the "special relationship" with the US and it's eventual cost.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Blairism? Alive?

Go and take a look at the nations reaction to the Chilcott Inquiry.

Itls dead as a doornail. Blairism is just a creed now hawked about by a group of about 70 bitter twisted pro-Zionists MPs in the LP who were happy to see Arab regimes toppled in his murderous wars that cost about a million lives.

Is that sound enough for you?

Still nothing to say why Blairism, or to give it the proper title, the third way, has been massively rejected by the public.

Again baby, bathwater.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But it is,the One nation Tory crowing before to the run up to last election was loud, 100 seat majority, was easily an average May was going to win by. Had Corbyn languishing in the polls, until the purdah period kicked and the media had to play fair. Other happenings played a role Mays ability to actualy come across like a Tory. Tory flagship Social Care policy, woke the nation from their individualism and realised it rather liked the idea of socialist principles to pay for their older care. And of course NHS Police Education etc, all ideals in Social Democracy funded by wealth distribution.

Guardian and Morning star, must be baby boomer thing.

It's always difficult to quantify these things, but I suspect it was a combination of Corbyn doing better than expected, May being utterly dreadful, many remainers wanting to vote for anyone but the Tories, and traditional Labour voters who will tend to vote their way if they can help it. If the election was today, there have already been various Lifelong Labour supporters who say they will struggle to vote for a party with Corbyn at the helm, and he's not done much to warm the cockles of remainers in the last two years. May has continued to be awful.

He might do well of course, but my point was that Dave likes to suggest that Momentum speak for the majority of Labour voters (as opposed to moderate/Blairites), when I'm not sure that's the case, and I'm certainly not sure where his evidence for such a claim.

Maybe so, but it's historic and not in keeping with the times we're in now.

Look at Lammy's Twitter feed this morning and afternoon - he's a complete racist.

Easterly's book doesn't frame it in a black/white sense, but rather the persistent bias in the aid community towards imposed/the west knows best solutions on developing countries, which is a hangover from colonial times. I've no doubt that the intentions of the aid community today aren't anywhere near as nefarious as the colonialists of yore, but the actions are often not dissimilar. I read his book a few years ago, and he talks primarily from his experience at the World Bank, so things may have changed, I couldn't say.

Whether Lammy's right or wrong I don't really care, but I can see his point of view.

 

[abelard]

what are you saying? to understand Orwell you have to have the same political beliefs he did?

no.

i am referring to your use of language, not your politics.

 

[orchard]

what are you saying? to understand Orwell you have to have the same political beliefs he did? that's just plain stupid for several reasons:

- Orwell died in 1949. His lessons about politics might be timeless, but his era of defined left/right/centrism is different to how it's defined now...time moves the goalposts. We see this just in the last 5 years where many lifelong lefties (like myself) now feel less defined by that label. Many of us are free-thinkers, even the label "centrist" doesn't really cut it.

- Orwell would be labelled a centrist today, tho' of course he was a free-thinker more than anything.

- to limit yourself to only understanding politics you agree with is one of the biggest problems we have.




eh?




that aggressive language is insane: vile, hateful, furious, storm...storm in a teacup more like.

how skinny that model's legs are is more of a scandal.




It's actually Boris Johnson & Theresa May...or rather, it depends which study from which thinktank you read.

Prompted by an early essay, but nothing that can't be found in his P&EL mate.

 

[Jacob]

Well done on Dooley, whoever she is, calling out unwarranted racism from David Lammy.

I don't know why David Lammy is suddenly taking a racial issue over this....Comic Relief has been doing this sort of promotion for donkeys years. Though some "famous" Brits who go to these areas may seem to some to do so out of sanctimonious self interest, its hardly as Lammy suggests colonial style condescension from "white saviours". People give out of compassion for less fortunate people, not to denigrate them. Maybe they should review Comic Relief totally as to where the money goes and for what, if its not appreciated by people in high office. Just out of interest, properly structured work in Uganda (where Stacey Dooley is working for the current Comic Relief ) already receives something in the region of £100m 2018/19 in UK aid from DFID as per this link. Im sure David is aware of this too.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/723334/DFID-Uganda-Profile-July-2018.pdf

 

[Tubey]

I don't know why David Lammy is suddenly taking a racial issue over this....Comic Relief has been doing this sort of promotion for donkeys years. Though some "famous" Brits who go to these areas may seem to some to do so out of sanctimonious self interest, its hardly as Lammy suggests colonial style condescension from "white saviours". People give out of compassion for less fortunate people, not to denigrate them. Maybe they should review Comic Relief totally as to where the money goes and for what, if its not appreciated by people in high office. Just out of interest, properly structured work in Uganda (where Stacey Dooley is working for the current Comic Relief ) already receives something in the region of £100m 2018/19 in UK aid from DFID as per this link. Im sure David is aware of this too.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/723334/DFID-Uganda-Profile-July-2018.pdf

I do - it's because he's a racist.

 

[Tubey]

Easterly's book doesn't frame it in a black/white sense, but rather the persistent bias in the aid community towards imposed/the west knows best solutions on developing countries, which is a hangover from colonial times. I've no doubt that the intentions of the aid community today aren't anywhere near as nefarious as the colonialists of yore, but the actions are often not dissimilar. I read his book a few years ago, and he talks primarily from his experience at the World Bank, so things may have changed, I couldn't say.

Whether Lammy's right or wrong I don't really care, but I can see his point of view.

I can't. I think you are seeing a broader view on a broader subject, but the offence is about highlighting the skin colour of this person as the issue. Replace Dooley with Lenny Henry and he wouldn't have batted an eyelid, so his point is null and void.

Again, if he had said "western saviour", an awful lot of people would have agreed with him. Instead, he decided to be racist, because he himself is, indeed, a racist.