Current Affairs The Labour Party

[JimmyJeffers]

Love it when @davek gets on one in these threads.

 

[Jib in lad]

Definitely not the man to use if you care about how Jewish people view the party

Spot on though isn't he.

 

[catcherintherye]

Do you know if McDonnell is deliberately keeping the brakes on a bit - given he's light years ahead of Corbyn in terms of ability? He had a heart attack a few years back and has spoken about how he saw his career winding down, so I wonder if he is being quite careful with his health.

Most surprising thing to me about JC is how tough he has been - for a man who's never had to make a decision in his working life. To go from relative back bench obscurity to the Daily Mail crawling up your ringpiece 24/7 would be an absolute meteor strike to your mental health. McDonnell is obv a busy frontline politician but that is orders of magnitude above.

It's a fair question and the truthful answer is I don't know mate. The person I knew within his department has gone.

My own opinion is that it's a product of a weak analysis from McDonnell. The 3 main left figures in Labour are Abbot, Corbyn & McDonnell. They come from different socialist traditions really. Abbott is strong on anti-racism, Corbyn is more about foreign policy whereas McDonnell is about domestic policy.

To his credit McDonnell got a very serious team around him, he basically went and found the best 8-10 academics on the area of economics and got them to thrash out a plan. For the first election since probably 2001 Labour outdid the Tories on the economy. Given that under Blair they essentially did this by co-opting and not fundamentally challenging the narrative it is an even more remarkable achievement.

The tories are now chasing after themselves to denounce austerity. You have Tory MP's talking about the horrors of austerity. McDonnell deserves a lot of credit for this. Not only did he put a radical plan together but he did the hard yards to win people to the idea it was credible. His manifesto killed austerity from an intellectual standpoint.

In a long winded way, I think McDonnell's view is that the economic policy is the basis to build and compromises should be made with people in order to get this through. He would also think, because there is some unity that on economic questions that other issues (such as foreign policy) should be conceded.

That is I suppose his weakness though. It's logical what he thinks. However deep down they don't support him (see Umuna rule out "unrealistic promises") and ultimately they don't want a left leaning Labour government getting into power. I think he under estimates this feeling.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I see Degsy has been suspended again.

 

[davek]

The biggest shock here is that he is 71! That botox has worked wonders.

“Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel!”

I'm sorry, but how does anyone get suspended for THAT?

It's McCarthyism. Corbyn needs to grow a pair and tell these Zionist gets to GTF.

 

[Tubey]

“Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel!”

I'm sorry, but how does anyone get suspended for THAT?

It's McCarthyism. Corbyn needs to grow a pair and tell these Zionist gets to GTF.

I think it's because its clear as day anti-Semitism like...

 

[davek]

I think it's because its clear as day anti-Semitism like...

Is it? Please explain.

 

[magicjuan]

I think it's because its clear as day anti-Semitism like...

Second time I have had to ask today, but can you explain what the anti semitism part is, honest question. Is it the 'jewish' part or 'Israel'?

 

[Tubey]

Is it? Please explain.

Because it equates an entire religion as having no humanity unless they have an opinion on a nation state. As in it is equating the whole religion with the actions of Israel and therefore having shared responsibility.

Of course, you won't see it that way as you have no interest in doing so. But that's exactly what he's done.

 

[Tubey]

Second time I have had to ask today, but can you explain what the anti semitism part is, honest question. Is it the 'jewish' part or 'Israel'?

See above.

 

[davek]

Because it equates an entire religion as having no humanity unless they have an opinion on a nation state. As in it is equating the whole religion with the actions of Israel and therefore having shared responsibility.

Of course, you won't see it that way as you have no interest in doing so. But that's exactly what he's done.

No it doesn't. Read it again. It's not a zero sum statement is it? You're adding a corrolary that doesn't necessarily follow.

 

[Tubey]

No it doesn't. Read it again. It's not a zero sum statement is it?

What is antisemitism? | IHRA working definition

What is antisemitism? The IHRA working definition helps governments, educators, and institutions identify and counter antisemitism all over the world.

www.holocaustremembrance.com

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.​

​

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It's quite literally a textbook definition of anti-semitism by Hatton.

If you don't speak publicly about it, you are endorsing it and collectively responsible.

That is anti-semitism.

​

 

[davek]

What is antisemitism? | IHRA working definition

What is antisemitism? The IHRA working definition helps governments, educators, and institutions identify and counter antisemitism all over the world.

www.holocaustremembrance.com

​

​

It's quite literally a textbook definition of anti-semitism by Hatton.

If you don't speak publicly about it, you are endorsing it and collectively responsible.

That is anti-semitism.

​

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Yes, and?

Hatton does not do that in his tweet does he? He's not saying they caused them. He;s requesting they should join him and others to do something about the inhumane treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli state because they'd have more significant impact.

It;s not that hard to understand mate.

 

[Tubey]

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Yes, and?

Hatton does not do that in his tweet does he? He's not saying they caused them. He;s requesting they should join him and others to do something about the inhumane treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli state.

It;s not that hard to understand mate.

He most certainly does do it, but as I say I understand completely that you'll try and spin him out of it as best you can, as is your wont.

He's literally said that Jews have no humanity if they don't condemn the actions of a nation state - jews, as a collective, have no humanity if they don't universally condemn Israel.

Here's what happens when I change two words.

Black people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by other blacks!

How does that look to you?

 

[tim cahill]

Here's what happens when I change two words.
How does that look to you?

I see the point you’re making although I think it’s twisting his words a bit to suit the Antisemitic theme.

If someone said this in reference to Salisbury then I doubt anyone would mind:
“Russian people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by the Russian state!”