Current Affairs The Labour Party

[peteblue]

We had a general election Joe. The Tories got trounced and Labour won a super majority. That was the will of the people.

You are still ignoring the point that Starmer got less votes than Corbyn, barely 33% of the vote, and because of Sunak 4 million votes went to reclaim, and many people like myself just withheld our votes from Sunak, It’s just numbers…once he gone Starmer is out…you can quote me on this….

 

[peteblue]

Why pensioners and not unemployed families?

Because us pensioners actually worked for a living……

 

[catcherintherye]

That's not how it works though...



This I more agree with. The Tory party is totally rudderless at the moment with various groups trying to hook their claws in and drag them to various right-wing ports. I think we're in unprecedented waters currently and it's not a given that they just bounce back given the decent showing of the smaller parties - extra seats for the Greens, a strong Lib Dem showing and Reform winning more seats than any of their previous incarnations ever did... combined - which way do they move when they have to try to muscle in on Labour's share too?


This however depends on Labour not getting embroiled in something that drives voters Torywards!

Edit - Demographics are also against them. This isn't uncommon, but they've become even more hostile than usual towards youth voters and from ConsHome comments, whilst they do recognise this as a problem there literally isn't a will to do anything about it.

I'm not sure I get your first comment. You can use precedent to compare. I'd say it's about as good a comparison as you can get.

Let's put it this way, I don't think Starmer is going to be taking any great risks either. There will be no easy wins. No idiotic knobs like Cummings wanting to blow up the civil service etc.

I think you are right. They are in a world of trouble. I don't really buy this it's always been that way either. In 1979/1983 they won the youth vote.

Their demography is hideous. It's worse than socially democratic parties in East Europe who would govern, then very quickly went to irrelevancy. And that's without FPTP, which accelerates this. And honestly, we probably would have had the same conversation if we would have said say, the SP on France would disappear, or similar parties in say Poland. It's just a human bias, we cant see change when it's about to happen.

Your final point I agree with. They have no idea what they need to do. Starmer basically went to the right of the Tory on their core issues, like Crime, Migration etc. They probably need to go to Labours left on social issues and say publicly sector. Good luck with that.

If I were advising them, it would be that they need urgent shock treatment. They basically need to win young (under 40) left voters from Lib Dems, Labour and the Greens to stop the leak from dying members. But like you say, nobody is even close to putting the perspective that's needed. They will just keep driving towards the iceberg, telling everyone Icebergs are woke and sinking the ship is winning really.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

Because us pensioners actually worked for a living……

Loads didn't, unemployment rate was higher in the early 80s than today.

 

[catcherintherye]

You are still ignoring the point that Starmer got less votes than Corbyn, barely 33% of the vote, and because of Sunak 4 million votes went to reclaim, and many people like myself just withheld our votes from Sunak, It’s just numbers…once he gone Starmer is out…you can quote me on this….

Well Pete, I seem to remember you telling me Trump would win in 2020 and the Tories would win in 2024, so politely I'm not going to take your view particularly seriously.

Aside from that, the 33% is terrifying. They can't be driven much lower. They won't get lower than Corbyn.

They have to win voters from Labour and Lib Dems. Forget Reform, their voters are dying off and don't get you any seats. Unless you win those voters, you go extinct.

And please, don't patronize us with this magical thinking it's only Tories who withholding votes. John Curtace has rubbished this. The votes went down across the board for ALL parties. But lots of Tories went to Labour/Lib Dems. They are the ones you need to win back.

 

[catcherintherye]

You are still ignoring the point that Starmer got less votes than Corbyn, barely 33% of the vote, and because of Sunak 4 million votes went to reclaim, and many people like myself just withheld our votes from Sunak, It’s just numbers…once he gone Starmer is out…you can quote me on this….

Again this is also irrelevant. He won a super majority of over 400. When you get a over 400 seats you can claim the will of the people. Labour have done that 3 times in my lifetime. The Tories have done that 0 times in the last 80 years.

When the Tories can manage it once, I'll give a bit of credit about who has support.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Well Pete, I seem to remember you telling me Trump would win in 2020 and the Tories would win in 2024, so politely I'm not going to take your view particularly seriously.

Aside from that, the 33% is terrifying. They can't be driven much lower. They won't get lower than Corbyn.

They have to win voters from Labour and Lib Dems. Forget Reform, their voters are dying off and don't get you any seats. Unless you win those voters, you go extinct.

And please, don't patronize us with this magical thinking it's only Tories who withholding votes. John Curtace has rubbished this. The votes went down across the board for ALL parties. But lots of Tories went to Labour/Lib Dems. They are the ones you need to win back.

I read that name very differently at first glance. I'm tired. I think it's bed time.

 

[catcherintherye]

I read that name very differently at first glance. I'm tired. I think it's bed time.

What name?

 

[peteblue]

Loads didn't, unemployment rate was higher in the early 80s than today.

Well let’s put it this way, I worked from the age of 16 until I retired, paid millions in taxes, paid for all my kids to get through University without debt, helped them all to buy houses and put money aside for my grandkids. I am an unpaid carer for my wife, the government ignores carers living off a pension that was raided by Gordon Brown, so is about one quarter of what is should be, and am still employing people who would otherwise be on the dole. I’ve done my bit. There are jobs out there, but some people will never want to apply or do them. So what would you suggest…..l

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

Well let’s put it this way, I worked from the age of 16 until I retired, paid millions in taxes, paid for all my kids to get through University without debt, helped them all to buy houses and put money aside for my grandkids. I am an unpaid carer for my wife, the government ignores carers living off a pension that was raided by Gordon Brown, so is about one quarter of what is should be, and am still employing people who would otherwise be on the dole. I’ve done my bit. There are jobs out there, but some people will never want to apply or do them. So what would you suggest…..l

The country can't set legislation based just off how you lived your life Pete.

 

[peteblue]

The country can't set legislation based just off how you lived your life Pete.

I know, but ffs, they can at least try to get unemployed back into work instead of ignoring them ……

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

I know, but ffs, they can at least try to get unemployed back into work instead of ignoring them ……

I'm sure there's many outlets doing their best, with more funding they might be able to help them further seeing as the public sector is struggling so badly financially after 14 years of Tory rule. That winter payment money will come in handy being reallocated.

 

[Goat]

I know, but ffs, they can at least try to get unemployed back into work instead of ignoring them ……

There are plenty of jobs out there, for those that need them, maybe some people just dont want to work?

 

[peteblue]

I'm sure there's many outlets doing their best, with more funding they might be able to help them further seeing as the public sector is struggling so badly financially after 14 years of Tory rule. That winter payment money will come in handy being reallocated.

It’s a pittance tbh, the government will probably end up losing money by the time the 30+% of people who are entitled have claimed the relevant benefits. It’s the most stupid thing any incoming government has done. It doesn’t affect me in any way, but dear god they really haven’t thought this through, financially, politically or just from the point of view of those who actually will suffer…..sorry I’ve had a tiring night and now off to bed, see you later today…..

 

[peteblue]

There are plenty of jobs out there, for those that need them, maybe some people just dont want to work?

So what should be done….