Current Affairs The Labour Party

[tsubaki]

Is it a charade, though? He said he would represent the membership, which is what he did. Saying “but he was anti-EU before!” us as meaningless as saying because May was remain she is hypocritical to take us out.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Is it a charade, though? He said he would represent the membership, which is what he did. Saying “but he was anti-EU before!” us as meaningless as saying because May was remain she is hypocritical to take us out.

But the membership are not only heavily in favour of staying in, but are heavily in favour of a 2nd referendum, both of which Corbyn has obstructed. It creates the impression that he loved the membership thing when the new acolytes joined the party and voted him into power, but now he has power within grasp he's less keen on listening to them.

 

[tsubaki]

I've no idea who the Red Boar are to be honest, so have no idea as to their allegiances, but these are his own words and the full speech was referenced to avoid any spin. He's branded as a man of conviction, which is supposed to be one of his core attributes, yet since becoming leader he appears to have displayed little of that, certainly on the topic of Europe.

As you say, he himself is clearly anti-Europe, yet campaigned for it. When it was pointed out that he did so poorly, people took umbrage at the suggestion. Since the vote, he has sat on the fence as much as possible so as not to alienate an electorate that is split between leave and remain, all the time hiding behind rules that are so important he's now abandoned them to support May's proposal. It's chaotic, and I can't help but think were Starmer not as diplomatic as he appears to be, he would have delivered all guns.

What you have said is 90% spin, though.

The fact you have no idea of who the Red Roar are (and just so we are clear on this, very few people know who they are) is somewhat worrying given the age we live in of dark money, foreign influence etc. How is a source like that so prominent nowadays?

With regards to him being a man of conviction, for a start - and to repeat myself above - he said he would represent the views of the membership even before he was elected leader. When you say that, you have to acknowledge that on occasion they are going to want something different to what you might want - which is what happened in 2016 and he did come out with an argument that he (and they) could live with that represented his concerns as well as the overall feeling that the membership had.

Did he do that poorly? That is something that could be debated, though personally I think what he was saying was far less damaging to Remain than some of the things the official campaign was coming out with, or (especially) Tom Watson's demand that freedom of movement be curtailed was.

Finally your point about "hiding behind rules that are so important he's now abandoned them to support May's proposal" - that is utterly wrong; of the six tests Starmer listed five of them are in Corbyn's letter. The only one that is missing - the one about the deal having exactly the same benefits as SM/CU membership - was the least important.

 

[tsubaki]

But the membership are not only heavily in favour of staying in, but are heavily in favour of a 2nd referendum, both of which Corbyn has obstructed. It creates the impression that he loved the membership thing when the new acolytes joined the party and voted him into power, but now he has power within grasp he's less keen on listening to them.

No, the thing that creates the impression that he is less keen on listening to the members are the people who go around telling everyone he is less keen on listening to the members (and who are themselves absolutely keen on not listening to the membership).

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

So he didn't believe what he was saying and only said it to curry favour with the audience?

More he believed in what the audience was trying to achieve for Ireland. And as shown yesterday the EU respects Ireland very much! Meanwhile away from partisan politics and general troupe of Corbyn bashing. Corbyn letter outlining Labours Brexit deal has been warmly welcomed by the EU. Let's hope our government all get round it too!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47160625

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[The binman chronicles]

Is it a charade, though? He said he would represent the membership, which is what he did. Saying “but he was anti-EU before!” us as meaningless as saying because May was remain she is hypocritical to take us out.

Not that I disagree with you too much with what you are saying above but is there any reason that would cause you not to be able to vote for Corbyn and Labour?

 

[The binman chronicles]

This is the sort of reason labour is not my party anymore. If they want an echo chamber fine, but if they want to actually have some power to change things then they need to do more than preach to the converted. 3 election defeats against one of the worst Tory governments ever seen and they are in serious danger of it becoming 4.

 

[tsubaki]

Not that I disagree with you too much with what you are saying above but is there any reason that would cause you not to be able to vote for Corbyn and Labour?

I am sure there must be something, though what we have seen so far hasn’t been it.

 

[tsubaki]

This is the sort of reason labour is not my party anymore. If they want an echo chamber fine, but if they want to actually have some power to change things then they need to do more than preach to the converted. 3 election defeats against one of the worst Tory governments ever seen and they are in serious danger of it becoming 4.

There is some sense in what you say, though it is also worth pointing out that Luciana Berger has been involved in all those defeats.

At what point do people decide, after seeing MPs repeatedly lose, “actually, perhaps it’s that they are just rubbish at politics”?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There is some sense in what you say, though it is also worth pointing out that Luciana Berger has been involved in all those defeats.

At what point do people decide, after seeing MPs repeatedly lose, “actually, perhaps it’s that they are just rubbish at politics”?

When the bloke who proposed her for deselection has used Zionist as a descriptor for her in the past, you'd think given the recent troubles the party has had, this may not be the best idea.

 

[The binman chronicles]

There is some sense in what you say, though it is also worth pointing out that Luciana Berger has been involved in all those defeats.

At what point do people decide, after seeing MPs repeatedly lose, “actually, perhaps it’s that they are just rubbish at politics”?

Surely that is more to do with the leader and front bench rather than a backbencher who has done her job by getting elected in her constituency?

What Labour needs is the policies to appeal outside of the heartlands and they have shown nothing that indicates that is happening.

 

[abelard]

What Labour needs is the policies to appeal outside of the heartlands and they have shown nothing that indicates that is happening.

they literally won Kensington

 

[zzr45]

they literally won Kensington

Thanks to the sitting Conservative MP being Pro-Leave in a Remain voting area, antiqued views on ivory trading and generally hiding from public debates. Not so much as a Labour win than Conservative throw away.

 

[abelard]

Thanks to the sitting Conservative MP being Pro-Leave in a Remain voting area, antiqued views on ivory trading and generally hiding from public debates. Not so much as a Labour win than Conservative throw away.

^Yet she managed to win by over 7,000 votes in 2015

How about Canterbury, Tory since the 19th century, and held by a Minister incumbent since 1987?