Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Rita_Poon]

Honestly, I'm not sure. If you took the country as it is, and have the Johnson>Truss>Sunak mess play out exactly as it did to ensure the same view of the Tories, I still think that the attack lines against Corbyn would make it competitive. The big question would be whether Reform would be playing so much of a spoiler role or whether the dislike of Corbyn would see them a bit less attractive for a lot of Tory voters.

I'd guess he probably would win, but it would be a tight victory with a small majority. This would probably end up badly for Labour as the party would be fractious under his leadership and he might struggle to do anything meaningful.

It is an interesting question though and a reminder of just how important timing is in politics - if Starmer had toppled Corbyn after 2017 and then lost badly to Johnson in 2019, he'd likely be gone already and who knows what Labour would look like now.

He'd be slaughtered as a putin enabler and be front page on all the scum tabloids stomping on Ukraine with the tagline, 'uk citizens next'. Nothing puts a fire under the arses of the thick as pig spit* racist knob head vote like project fear. From being a commie one day, he'd be a nazi the next and the easily governed would swallow every penny of it. The hatred of a principled man is that he can't be bought off or talked round, so they found his hot topic, nuclear weapons and pursued him as a national weakness. The thick twits* of the uk gobbled it up and wanted seconds. Net benefactor boris 'kin johnson.

And oh how they cried for their queen. Morons.

 

[Digger09]

Corbyn didn't lose because of policy. His policies, when presented by themselves without people being told who was proposing them, were largely popular.

He lost because of the presentation, his own personal failings as a politician, a rabidly vicious and biased media, and the snides in his own party briefing against him and actively working to stop him reaching #10.

The same snides who Starmer is rewarding with safe seats.

This!

 

[Aberblue]

2017 was the one the snides ruined. That was the blown chance.

2019 they made a proper bollocks of, and were up against Johnson's bare-faced Brexit lies to a Brexit-fatigued electorate.

No doubt the "snides" in the Labour party harmed their chances, but it must be remembered that Labour faced the worst run election campaign in history by May and her crew, and were still over 50 seats behind the Tories. If the Conservatives had managed an averagely decent campaign Labour would have been trounced. The Tories had a huge lead in the opinion polls before the campaign started, remember, but May's total lack of competence and charisma were cruelly exposed by the time it came for people to vote.

 

[Rita_Poon]

No doubt the "snides" in the Labour party harmed their chances, but it must be remembered that Labour faced the worst run election campaign in history by May and her crew, and were still over 50 seats behind the Tories. If the Conservatives had managed an averagely decent campaign Labour would have been trounced. The Tories had a huge lead in the opinion polls before the campaign started, remember, but May's total lack of competence and charisma were cruelly exposed by the time it came for people to vote.

may as home sec inflicted the windrush scandal on this nation, to harm people to appease the racist nutters they want votes from. her reward was pm somehow.

that she isn't the worst of the bunch in this fiasco, in light of the above sentence, allows an overview of the nasty, mean minded, harmful, bullying spectre of the past 14 years.

tory leadership is a murderous regime. It always has been.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The Red Wall was his undoing,the Tories fed into the inherent racist views of the inbred populations of towns like Burnley etc. Plus the students who appeared to worship him given the choice of getting up and dressed to go out and vote preferred an Uber delivered Happy Meal and a game of (insert the latest most popular online game).

On the potato scale, that's a King Eddie's level.statement. Well done comrade.

 

[davids]

On the potato scale, that's a King Eddie's level.statement. Well done comrade.

Seek help?

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Corbyn didn't lose because of policy. His policies, when presented by themselves without people being told who was proposing them, were largely popular.

He lost because of the presentation, his own personal failings as a politician, a rabidly vicious and biased media, and the snides in his own party briefing against him and actively working to stop him reaching #10.

The same snides who Starmer is rewarding with safe seats.

This why I ended my membership 2 years ago.

 

[Charro]

On the potato scale, that's a King Eddie's level.statement. Well done comrade.

They did though.

Cummings and co identified the demographic to get the brexit vote over the line then hit it hard in 2019.

Don’t agree with calling people from these towns inbreds or the like. They’ve just been heavily exploited over the last ten years.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Do you think Corbyn would win this election?

No.

He wouldn't have made the move rightwards, which is essentially what appeases the industro-media bloc and appeals to the sensibilities of 'blue Labour' brexit voters and centre ground/soft right Tories in seats needed to gain power.

Like it or not that's how I see it - I'm also aware a proportional representation system would have yielded a different result, that there's significant vested interest against real change etc. It's the reality of the filthy political terrain in this country.

 

[davids]

No.

He wouldn't have made the move rightwards, which is essentially what appeases the industro-media bloc and appeals to the sensibilities of 'blue Labour' brexit voters and centre ground/soft right Tories in seats needed to gain power.

Like it or not that's how I see it - I'm also aware a proportional representation system would have yielded a different result, that there's significant vested interest against real change etc. It's the reality of the filthy political terrain in this country.

I agree but my take is that those within the (alleged) Labour party would undermine any socialist leader.

 

[spectateur]

Thanks. I don't think any new party would bring significant change we have all the infrastructure in place.

Maybe you are from a time where war time Britain existed, but capitalism has speed up development across London and the south and is a main cause for the wealth divide and reason for increased poverty in this country.

The wealth divide is also why you believe politicians are more Tory leaning even when they represent Labour seats. As typical PPE university graduates/Entrepreneurs/Lawyers, people who tend to become elected officials come from wealthier backgrounds. Proven in studies of wealth Vs Education bias.

But that's not the point. Starmer personal ideologies are of no interest to me. As mentioned in my previous post we are a democratic society.

The only time you should worry about a leaders personal views is in a dictatorial society. But we elect our officials to work in our interests and the party's vote leaders on the basis of being agreeable to the public. So he will bend the knee to our will.

That is proven with the current government. Look at the leaders.

Cameron resigned due failing in the Brexit vote.
May resigned to due to failing the people in getting a deal.
Boris resigned due to failing the people in COVID.
Truss for failing the people in the budget.

Now it is our decision to decide if Sunak has delivered on his policies. I will look at all others parties policies and make my decision on that. Not their leaders leaning to close to others.

Well spotted. I am indeed an old timer, too old even to be a baby boomer.
I have seen much better times than the present, times when we had hopes and aspirations for a better future.
That future came and went, I can't see much optimism nowadays.

 

[tsubaki]

Appreciate the answer, but probably true about John Smith, thoroughly decent and popular man, who was took far too early from us. But was John Smith changing things before Blair too ? Who could honestly say. You say people stopped voting Labour, Tsubsaki, Blair had three terms, so it could not have been that many who stopped voting for him. Yes the Blair Government could have done better, but he got in by appealing to a wider section of voters. I would personally have liked him to repeal some of them anti union Thatcher laws.

It was four million people (13.5 million in 1997 down to 9.5 million by 2005), and they lost half the membership between 1997 and 2010 too.

I agree he got in by appealing to a wider section of voters, but it was what he did that turned many people off him and Labour specifically and often politics generally. Labour cannot do that again, the country cannot afford it and is not going to tolerate it.

 

[tsubaki]

"Corbyn this and Corbyn that"...the Labour leaders who cratered that party were centre ground politicians: Brown and Miliband. Corbyn got the party back on track as an electoral force in 2017; and at the 2019 'debacle' the party still got 10 million votes, which way outstripped Blair in his final election victory and Brown and Miliband's defeats.

The utter BS trotted out by some people. They should go and look at electoral performance between the left and centre-right leaders before they talk about success and failure. Just trotting out media lies won't cut it I'm afraid.

I disagree about Miliband - for the two big calls he had to make as leader (on intervening in Syria and on press malpractice) he got both of them right, in the face of severe criticism from the political class. The internal opposition to him from the right bitched and moaned for ages about him, and still do in some cases.

Sadly though he listened to them again when it came to fighting the election and, instead of running on his record, he ran on some other things instead and got smashed.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I wanted Corbyn to win and voted for him for both Elections, because I will support the Labour Party no matter who is in charge, I find the Tory party abhorrent full stop.

Is it worth considering that Blair won the GEs he ran in. He wasn't defeated but resigned handing power to Brown, who.later resigned handing power to Miliband which lead to the party being removed and the 14 years we have suffered at the hands of the tory party.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Ah yes, the Melchett approach to politics - lets do exactly the same things we've done the past twenty years, they are bound to get us out of the mess we are in.

Small point of correction, voting a Labour government into power is not the same as voting to keep this tory party in power.