Current Affairs The Labour Party

[orchard]

I can understand why the membership especially thinks that, but TBF that is a bit of a red herring in itself. There is nothing wrong with our voting system; a set group of individuals electing one of their own to represent them in an assembly entirely composed of representatives of the other parts of the nation is the ideal system.

The problem of course is that the people don’t control the selection of the potential representatives nor are the representatives (if elected) only or even mainly concerned with representing their constituents. National parties play a much bigger role in that respect and will inevitably corrupt things if they are allowed, because of the obvious tendency for them to protect their own positions.

Modern national level parties are after all largely responsible for destroying mass participation in politics. If they could (and they already pretend this is the case) they’d only have party names on the ballot. Any proper reform has to make them illegal, with serious prison sentences and other sanctions for establishing them even secretly.

Well yeah, reforming the 'Party' element could make an elected oligarchy more palatable, but that's not happening on their watch either. None of it is ideal, fairly pragmatic maybe.

Going back to the citizen assembly bull, it's a token gesture and would only mean something when that was also the only way that corporations, lobby groups and wealthy individuals as well as the 'ordinary' citizen could influence policy.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

This is one of those rare occasions where it could actually help the government get out of a hole it’s dug for itself, and allow them to back away from the blank cheque that Sunak gave Netanyahu.

Labour have stitched SNP up on this fuming as they now plot with Tories to oust Hoyle over Labour amendment. As parliament votes to sit in private People still raise the fact that the SNP voted with the Tories in 1979 to bring Labour down. To be seen to work with the Tories against Labour again could do further damage to the SNP election chances at the next election. Was silly to play Westminster politics with Gazza, poor show SNP Tory enablers.

 

[Rita_Poon]

If that streak of pish hoyle can get booted (and hard!) then all's the better. A ship* heel if ever there was.

 

[Charro]

Nothing but a rich man’s game all this isn’t it.

 

[Agent Blue]

I suppose it depends both on the makeup of this "assembly", the information they're given, and the decisions they're being asked to make. I mean a bus driver might indeed have something useful to say about transport, but they're pretty unlikely to understand the budgetary restraints the system operates under or the social/economic factors that might underpin route planning. A nurse would be great at highlighting factors of their particular job, but would they have insights into the actual running of a hospital?

By and large, we have a civil service that is already fairly well equipped (or as equipped as it can be) to do things, so perhaps the bigger question is why do we continually put in their way ill-informed bumpkins?

100% agree with you.
I suppose we will just have to wait and see how it all pans out. Although I'm not holding my breath on a totally positive outcome as the ill informed bumpkins will try their best to balls it up.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

If that streak of pish hoyle can get booted (and hard!) then all's the better. A ship* heel if ever there was.

I'd not be surprised if Hoyle resigns as Speaker and retired from Parliament after this.

My Flickr

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Nothing but a rich man’s game all this isn’t it.

Jess is back on side.

 

[tsubaki]

If that streak of pish hoyle can get booted (and hard!) then all's the better. A ship* heel if ever there was.

not like this though - they apparently forced the speaker into doing that, something that is beneath contempt for a government to do never mind an opposition

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

not like this though - they apparently forced the speaker into doing that, something that is beneath contempt for a government to do never mind an opposition

Duncan Smith is saying the same, bastion of truth and integrity, the company we keep...

The Government can and do lay amendments to defeat opposition day motions. The SNP crafted a plan to trap and embarrass Labour using their opposition day to ensure Labour couldn't do anything about it. If a plan depends on the Speaker behaving in a certain way, then it's a silly plan. Myself pretty sure Bercow would have called the SNP out for it.

Truth is a resurgent Labour in Scotland is a problem for the SNP and Tories. Today was about damaging the Labour Party in Scotland nothing about making Gazza a safer place. The anger from the SNP is because they've been thwarted and Tories and their enablers jumping for political gain/revenge.

 

[tsubaki]

Duncan Smith is saying the same, bastion of truth and integrity, the company we keep...

The Government can and do lay amendments to defeat opposition day motions. The SNP crafted a plan to trap and embarrass Labour using their opposition day to ensure Labour couldn't do anything about it. If a plan depends on the Speaker behaving in a certain way, then it's a silly plan. Myself pretty sure Bercow would have called the SNP out for it.

Truth is a resurgent Labour in Scotland is a problem for the SNP and Tories. Today was about damaging the Labour Party in Scotland nothing about making Gazza a safer place. The anger from the SNP is because they've been thwarted and Tories and their enablers jumping for political gain/revenge.

If you think its fine to bully the impartial arbiter of events, with threats of deselection then by all means place yourself in the bin right now. Any party, of whatever side, who gets away with that could never be trusted on anything.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

If you think its fine to bully the impartial arbiter of events, with threats of deselection then by all means place yourself in the bin right now. Any party, of whatever side, who gets away with that could never be trusted on anything.

Not me siding with Duncan Smith is it... As i thought nothing about Gazza, which speaks volumes.

 

[tsubaki]

Not me siding with Duncan Smith is it... As i thought nothing about Gazza, which speaks volumes.

You could at least refer to it correctly. I would also refer you to the thread on that topic on this forum, on which I have probably posted much more than yourself.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

You could at least refer to it correctly. I would also refer you to the thread on that topic on this forum, on which I have probably posted much more than yourself.

Mainly stay away, its a toxic thread. Just posted prior to this and wont again for a while. Have been of the opinion from the onset this is all about UK politics and not about the people of Gazza or Israel, navel gazing keyboard warriors insisting on calling for a ceasefire...

 

[Charro]

Mainly stay away, its a toxic thread. Just posted prior to this and wont again for a while. Have been of the opinion from the onset this is all about UK politics and not about the people of Gazza or Israel, navel gazing keyboard warriors insisting on calling for a ceasefire...

Are you purposely spelling Gaza incorrectly?

 

[mightymoyes]

Are you purposely spelling Gaza incorrectly?

I'd say so