Current Affairs The Labour Party

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davek said:
Any LP manifesto up to 1992 would be viewed by people now as having policies that are 'non-pragmatic' including the winning ones.

You have to fight to have policies to make a difference between Labour and the Tories or else it's not worth having power.

And the sad thing is that the Tory's are in such disarray that Starmer could easily keep many of his leadership election promises and still win a majority. But that's not what he and his handler Mandelson want. They want Labour to be a party of the right. They have zero feel for the Labour movement and aren't part of the tribe. They are technocrats who simply wish to hold power and they'll hollow out any party to achieve it. Both of them could and should have been (formally) Tories.

What a lost opportunity it is. A golden chance to redistribute power and wealth now the Tories are flattened but we'll get Red Toryism instead.

The establishment are heaving a huge sigh of relief that Starmer conned the Labour Party membership to become their Manchurian Candidate.
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But most of the manifestos up to and including 1992's were losing manifestos, Dave. That's the point.

Neil Kinnock was the missed opportunity. Had he won, you wouldn't have needed New Labour. It was still Old Labour up to then. But he was rejected - and there were plenty in Labour even then saying he was too centrist or too tough on the Loony Left.

And you speak of tribes. Yours is no longer big enough to win under its own steam. Therefore, your choice is to retain your purity in opposition, or actually make compromises and govern.

The choice in the end is Starmer or Sunak and the headbangers. If he wins, his strategy will be proven correct. There is no majority for Corbynism. That's just reality. Whether there is for Starmer remains to be seen.
 
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The Tories watching this thread.
 
Thread seems to have hit some sort of vortex (wonder why...or who...) anyway. Let's take it from the top.

The scum isn't welcome on Merseyside now or ever. The harm done by that rag via mackenzie on behalf of murdoch and his murderers and favour doers in the thatcher cabal will never be forgiven or forgotten. cameron can shove his exceptionally late apology as well!
Unfortunately 'every means of reaching the voters country wide' left behind is a lost opportunity versus the tory-scum, who will seek to capitalise further via their chums (murdoch remember) running the media. So although I don't like it, I appreciate Starmer has to utilise that rag because it appeals to the page 3 ogling, 3am girls following, liquid tripe parroting, morons country wide. Their votes count as well, and winning over those that've been crapped on by 14 years of tory-scum theft is as important as appealing to all the other dynamics of the vote carrying populous. Liverpool/merseyside is not the nation, and the nation has to vote enough to oust the tory-scum.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The tory-scum has got to go. Cry arsing about the lib dems and the greens is just that - cry arsing.
 
John Smith would have won the 97 election and was certainly further left than Blair. Whether he would have won a subsequent 2 elections is impossible to say of course. I think that it’s a perpetuated fallacy that labour have to appeal to some sort of mythical middle ground when clear and concise policies and delivery are more likely to win the day. Doubt many voters could even identify what left wing even is tbh.

Remember it’s always the left that has to concede and cooperate. The right can just get more xenophobic and nationalist and none of their voters give a fat one.
 
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