Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Amw79]

The Labour Party has been around for 123 years, and has been in power for just over 30 of those years, and 13 of those were “New Labour” under Blair/Brown.

Considering we hear that the basics of the Labour Party - proper rights for workers, a progressive tax system - are consistently supported by a majority of the electorate, you have to wonder why we’re always stuck with Tory rule.

The answer is seen in this thread, that the left are constantly waiting for the perfect party to pop up, and end up voting or abstaining against their own interests.

Being ideological and principled is all well and good, but looking from the sidelines commenting about how the country really should be run, from a position of opposition is a mugs game, and conceding the ground to a Tory party who know that the real game is to get in power first and worry about getting the ideal party you want second, means that the country pays the price.

 

[magicjuan]

No, but I believe the Labour Party should be a lot more supportive than they currently are.

Bear in mind starmer was actively telling MPs not to join picket lines. That’s poor for the Labour Party.

I didn’t say anything about blindly supporting workers, just more support than what they’re currently showing.

This raises a serious point. In the direction the labour party is going, (not supporting striking workers for instance), I think it should be defunded by the unions and made to stand on its own. From that it has self determination to compete with the tory party.
The unions can start again. Sod the labour party, see who it can find to represent.

 

[Charro]

Well you say the Labour party has failed you with the above (and in your opinion valid) reasons, my point is that if you don't have Labour in charge, the Tories will be in charge, and they will do it all 100 times worse. It's not worth imagining another 4 years of these clowns in charge. Any vote for Greens etc is just wasted.

I feel like this is a really simple, black and white way of looking at things. Politics isn’t like this, it’s complicated and has many shades of grey.

There needs to be better representation of the left in parliament so a vote for greens or any independents is a worth while one.

Where I live, a vote for Labour is wasted and they will do nothing. That’s a wasted vote.

Labour will get in anyway and I live in what is considered one of their safest seats so my vote probably won’t amount to much anyway.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No, but I believe the Labour Party should be a lot more supportive than they currently are.

Bear in mind starmer was actively telling MPs not to join picket lines. That’s poor for the Labour Party.

I didn’t say anything about blindly supporting workers, just more support than what they’re currently showing.

Joining the picket line means the government is picking sides. The same would apply to MPs joining a pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian march. It's not how governments should do things.

 

[magicjuan]

The Labour Party has been around for 123 years, and has been in power for just over 30 of those years, and 13 of those were “New Labour” under Blair/Brown.

Considering we hear that the basics of the Labour Party - proper rights for workers, a progressive tax system - are consistently supported by a majority of the electorate, you have to wonder why we’re always stuck with Tory rule.

The answer is seen in this thread, that the left are constantly waiting for the perfect party to pop up, and end up voting or abstaining against their own interests.

Being ideological and principled is all well and good, but looking from the sidelines commenting about how the country really should be run, from a position of opposition is a mugs game, and conceding the ground to a Tory party who know that the real game is to get in power first and worry about getting the party you want second, means that the country pays the price.

But the system is rigged. We saw that with Corbyn. All resources were put in place to oppose him and prevent him getting in to No. 10. Still are. And he was a moderate democratic socialist. Which proves the point how far to the right the country now is for him to be labelled 'the loony left'.

 

[Charro]

The Labour Party has been around for 123 years, and has been in power for just over 30 of those years, and 13 of those were “New Labour” under Blair/Brown.

Considering we hear that the basics of the Labour Party - proper rights for workers, a progressive tax system - are consistently supported by a majority of the electorate, you have to wonder why we’re always stuck with Tory rule.

The answer is seen in this thread, that the left are constantly waiting for the perfect party to pop up, and end up voting or abstaining against their own interests.

Being ideological and principled is all well and good, but looking from the sidelines commenting about how the country really should be run, from a position of opposition is a mugs game, and conceding the ground to a Tory party who know that the real game is to get in power first and worry about getting the ideal party you want second, means that the country pays the price.

I think the problem is more a press that has duped a lot of people into blaming “the left” for everything.

To the point now where even Labour supporters are doing it.

 

[Charro]

Joining the picket line means the government is picking sides. The same would apply to MPs joining a pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian march. It's not how governments should do things.

They’re not in government.

Starmers stance on supporting striking workers was an indication of where he is moving the Labour Party which is why I choose it as one of the reasons I’am not voting Labour.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

The answer is seen in this thread, that the left are constantly waiting for the perfect party to pop up, and end up voting or abstaining against their own interests.

I disagree. In my experience, friends will still vote labour even though they wish for a party further to the left.
Also find that they are far more politically aware and more likely to vote instead of abstaining.

Aware this is just anecdotal evidence via a social group mind. Would like to see if there’s any studies or surveys on this.

 

[Amw79]

But the system is rigged. We saw that with Corbyn. All resources were put in place to oppose him and prevent him getting in to No. 10. Still are. And he was a moderate democratic socialist. Which proves the point how far to the right the country now is for him to be labelled 'the loony left'.

I think some of what I said applies to Corbyn’s Labour. The Centre left of the party and electorate got conned by the narrative, and didn’t back Corbyn, and we’ve had Tory rule as a consequence since.

 

[Amw79]

I disagree. In my experience, friends will still vote labour even though they wish for a party further to the left.
Also find that they are far more politically aware and more likely to vote instead of abstaining.

Aware this is just anecdotal evidence via a social group mind. Would like to see if there’s any studies or surveys on this.

I hope you’re right, and I’m wrong. But I’m 44 and have lived under 31 years of Tory rule in that time, so something is going wrong in getting a cohesive opposition to Tory power.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

They’re not in government.

Starmers stance on supporting striking workers was an indication of where he is moving the Labour Party which is why I choose it as one of the reasons I’am not voting Labour.

For what it's worth, I've argued a number of times in public for better jobs (including pay) as it nearly always actually benefits employers to do that as productivity tends to rise while absenteeism, sickness, stress and turnover tends to fall. There are ways and means of doing that as a government (in waiting) though.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

This raises a serious point. In the direction the labour party is going, (not supporting striking workers for instance), I think it should be defunded by the unions and made to stand on its own. From that it has self determination to compete with the tory party.
The unions can start again. Sod the labour party, see who it can find to represent.

This is the crux of Labour's problem though. Yes the unions are a significant and important funder and historically labour has been for the unionised 'workers' (from miners to teachers and academics, its never been the 'working class'). But that support doesn't win power alone. Which is where the uneasy relationships and moves away from that constituency's interests come in and, in turn, cause tensions like we're discussing now.

It's a serious question - would a new party based on unionist interests get near power?

I don't necessarily like the answer either. But I currently don't see another way forward to oust this horrific Government.

 

[Bluerover]

This is the crux of Labour's problem though. Yes the unions are a significant and important funder and historically labour has been for the unionised 'workers' (from miners to teachers and academics, its never been the 'working class'). But that support doesn't win power alone. Which is where the uneasy relationships and moves away from that constituency's interests come in and, in turn, cause tensions like we're discussing now.

It's a serious question - would a new party based on unionist interests get near power?

I don't necessarily like the answer either. But I currently don't see another way forward to oust this horrific Government.

DGLC I take it you mean Trade Unionist interests, not Jeffrey Donaldson !!

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

DGLC I take it you mean Trade Unionist interests, not Jeffrey Donaldson !!

Oh no, deffo Jeffo's interests.

Trade what?

 

[Rita_Poon]

The Labour Party has been around for 123 years, and has been in power for just over 30 of those years, and 13 of those were “New Labour” under Blair/Brown.

Considering we hear that the basics of the Labour Party - proper rights for workers, a progressive tax system - are consistently supported by a majority of the electorate, you have to wonder why we’re always stuck with Tory rule.

The answer is seen in this thread, that the left are constantly waiting for the perfect party to pop up, and end up voting or abstaining against their own interests.

Being ideological and principled is all well and good, but looking from the sidelines commenting about how the country really should be run, from a position of opposition is a mugs game, and conceding the ground to a Tory party who know that the real game is to get in power first and worry about getting the ideal party you want second, means that the country pays the price.

Morons like cow-towing to their better offs/higher ups. The irony of the class system, all desperate to be teachers pet. There's also the bunch that love moaning, they need something to invest their worthless efforts into, so they have a reason to exist, the karen entitlement sort.
[on a side note I wonder, how much church can be blamed, in that the church isn't quite as totemic as it once was, the cu...pricks that are so selfish and interbred used to go to church for an hour and then feel better somehow for an hour or so there after, this communal aspect meant less time and focus for their own projects of hate.]