Current Affairs The Labour Party

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edge said:
If there isn't a place for someone like you it's the unions faults.
And they should address it.
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Not just that either Edge, it's a free world, or so they say, if Bruce doesn't want to, he doesn't have to, it's up to the individual. What's encouraging to me is we have loads of temps in our place, if they go full time, they seem inevitably want to join the union.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I'm an ordinary working person. My wife is a nurse. What an odd statement to make. Indeed, I'm doing some research work at the moment on how working class people can transition when their livelihoods are disrupted, and suffice to say, unions are nowhere to be seen.
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The nurses union is quite strong isnt it mate?

I'd be interested in that research, as as the big macro picture is that a whole range of measures on pay for ordinary people, shift with lack of union density in society. The advances that have been made, have come at times with much greater union density, and indeed often as a direct result.

I would say the single biggest thing ordinary people could do, to get a better deal is to join a union. It wont make you a millionaire, but will make a difference.

The issue is, unions have become greatly weakened over time and there is a huge cultural assault on them in this country. The flip of that, has meant that a certain culture permeates, which is off putting for many. And finally, they dont really know how to grow into new areas. They tend to focus on where they are strong. It's a reflection of a sort of short term, pragmatism.

Theres little doubt though, that for unions to be more successful in private sector industries they need to start to look and sound like those areas.
 
mahermi1 said:
Not just that either Edge, it's a free world, or so they say, if Bruce doesn't want to, he doesn't have to, it's up to the individual. What's encouraging to me is we have loads of temps in our place, if they go full time, they seem inevitably want to join the union.
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Yes it's a free world I agree. unfortunately lot of people don't see the need for unions or see them relevant to them,
I suppose if your outside of a workplace without one it might not be a priority for you until you need one.
Myself , I would always join ,
I tend to do my own talking , havnt Been near the union for years. ( Saying that this ex firebrand fire has long gone out,)
But a lot of people don't have the make-up or the knowledge, to do that so can get put in positions they shouldn't be
Temps should jump at the chance to be in a union.
Each to there own, its a two way street the union should make it clear to people the benefits membership offers.
As they sat the union is only as strong as the people in it.
A bad local rep can ruin peoples perception.
It's harder to get the younger people intrested these days as well.
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
What makes you say that?

My own vew is she's well meaning but the way she and her followers go about their business is not particularly mature or helpful.
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What you say really.

I think shes out of her depth. The disagragated voting has lost momentum. The message is too complicated. I dont think she gives effective lead, and the university management kind of lead her into traps.
 
catcherintherye said:
The nurses union is quite strong isnt it mate?

I'd be interested in that research, as as the big macro picture is that a whole range of measures on pay for ordinary people, shift with lack of union density in society. The advances that have been made, have come at times with much greater union density, and indeed often as a direct result.

I would say the single biggest thing ordinary people could do, to get a better deal is to join a union. It wont make you a millionaire, but will make a difference.

The issue is, unions have become greatly weakened over time and there is a huge cultural assault on them in this country. The flip of that, has meant that a certain culture permeates, which is off putting for many. And finally, they dont really know how to grow into new areas. They tend to focus on where they are strong. It's a reflection of a sort of short term, pragmatism.

Theres little doubt though, that for unions to be more successful in private sector industries they need to start to look and sound like those areas.
Click to expand...
It's an isolated exposure but I haven't really found my wife's union to be any use at all tbh. For instance, a colleague of hers is the "speaking up guardian" and she has been hauled over the coals for speaking up in a number of cases in the last year, despite many trusts having official guidance against the things she has spoken up about, and her role seemingly giving her free rein to speak up about these things. In every instance she's asked her union rep what support they can offer and has been told not to bother fighting. Similarly, when there was a widespread transition to telehealth during the pandemic, the union didn't really do anything to provide staff with any skills-based support for that transition, despite many older nurses struggling with it.

That and, of course, nurses received a tiny pay rise last year, despite being clapped by the nation, which even without inflation being as it is has resulted in an effective pay cut due to higher taxes this year. The nurses union presumably signed off on that. So, yeah, it's fair to say my opinion of them isn't that high.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's an isolated exposure but I haven't really found my wife's union to be any use at all tbh. For instance, a colleague of hers is the "speaking up guardian" and she has been hauled over the coals for speaking up in a number of cases in the last year, despite many trusts having official guidance against the things she has spoken up about, and her role seemingly giving her free rein to speak up about these things. In every instance she's asked her union rep what support they can offer and has been told not to bother fighting. Similarly, when there was a widespread transition to telehealth during the pandemic, the union didn't really do anything to provide staff with any skills-based support for that transition, despite many older nurses struggling with it.

That and, of course, nurses received a tiny pay rise last year, despite being clapped by the nation, which even without inflation being as it is has resulted in an effective pay cut due to higher taxes this year. The nurses union presumably signed off on that. So, yeah, it's fair to say my opinion of them isn't that high.
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Agree with the point about receiving more support for your wife's colleague, that is the unions job.
The point about training, surely that's the companies job ? Nothing to do with the union to provide it if that's your point.
Pay rises, again that's up to the company/ health service, the Union can only apply for a pay rise, it's up to the company to pay it. What would you have thought, or most of the people, general question if the union asked it's workers to go on strike ? During this pandemic of just after it, would the nation remain sympathetic to their cause when their parents/ kids/ brothers/ sisters were ill or even dying. Horrible thing to say but this horrific government has got them and most other key workers over a barrel, strike is a swear word, people's right are being dissolved, the government and the media will see to that.
 
mahermi1 said:
Agree with the point about receiving more support for your wife's colleague, that is the unions job.
The point about training, surely that's the companies job ? Nothing to do with the union to provide it if that's your point.
Pay rises, again that's up to the company/ health service, the Union can only apply for a pay rise, it's up to the company to pay it. What would you have thought, or most of the people, general question if the union asked it's workers to go on strike ? During this pandemic of just after it, would the nation remain sympathetic to their cause when their parents/ kids/ brothers/ sisters were ill or even dying. Horrible thing to say but this horrific government has got them and most other key workers over a barrel, strike is a swear word, people's right are being dissolved, the government and the media will see to that.
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they are probably covered by a clause in there contract of employment saying you cannot talk to outside agencies, i.e. press, tv , we are covered by it on the rail, you have to direct them to the company press office. you cannot make any comment
if you sign the contract of employment saying that there is very little the union can do about it, as you have agreed to those conditions .
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's an isolated exposure but I haven't really found my wife's union to be any use at all tbh. For instance, a colleague of hers is the "speaking up guardian" and she has been hauled over the coals for speaking up in a number of cases in the last year, despite many trusts having official guidance against the things she has spoken up about, and her role seemingly giving her free rein to speak up about these things. In every instance she's asked her union rep what support they can offer and has been told not to bother fighting. Similarly, when there was a widespread transition to telehealth during the pandemic, the union didn't really do anything to provide staff with any skills-based support for that transition, despite many older nurses struggling with it.

That and, of course, nurses received a tiny pay rise last year, despite being clapped by the nation, which even without inflation being as it is has resulted in an effective pay cut due to higher taxes this year. The nurses union presumably signed off on that. So, yeah, it's fair to say my opinion of them isn't that high.
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I think this underpins how weakened they have become really, and why its probably a negative thing overall.
 
mahermi1 said:
Agree with the point about receiving more support for your wife's colleague, that is the unions job.
The point about training, surely that's the companies job ? Nothing to do with the union to provide it if that's your point.
Pay rises, again that's up to the company/ health service, the Union can only apply for a pay rise, it's up to the company to pay it. What would you have thought, or most of the people, general question if the union asked it's workers to go on strike ? During this pandemic of just after it, would the nation remain sympathetic to their cause when their parents/ kids/ brothers/ sisters were ill or even dying. Horrible thing to say but this horrific government has got them and most other key workers over a barrel, strike is a swear word, people's right are being dissolved, the government and the media will see to that.
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I'd say that a union should exist to support members in whatever way possible. For instance if people are part of a trade body, such as CMI for managers, then training and so on will be part of the deal to help prepare them both for the present working environment but also what will come in the future. I mean it's not like union membership is free, people are paying a fee per year for membership and it would perhaps improve relations with employers if this kind of thing was included. I mean my wife's union provides a magazine, they probably put on a conference, and so on, so there is clearly some kind of interest in development, but it seems to be largely ineffectual.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I'd say that a union should exist to support members in whatever way possible. For instance if people are part of a trade body, such as CMI for managers, then training and so on will be part of the deal to help prepare them both for the present working environment but also what will come in the future. I mean it's not like union membership is free, people are paying a fee per year for membership and it would perhaps improve relations with employers if this kind of thing was included. I mean my wife's union provides a magazine, they probably put on a conference, and so on, so there is clearly some kind of interest in development, but it seems to be largely ineffectual.
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Roughly £10 a month for that they represent you if you get in trouble and allow you free collective bargaining so you get the same pay rise as every other member, meaning they do all the dirty work, bargaining with management on your behalf. Oh and be a target by their own workforce when the redundancies are carried out or when a group of members decide they do not like a management decision. You seem to want a lot for a tenner Bruce.
 
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