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[Moomin]

I BET E WUDDENT EVEN PUSH DER BUTTON AGAINST THE RUSSIANS

WE NEED STRONG LEEDERS LYK R TOMMY

EEE SAVES R DAUGTERS FRM TEM MOSLEMS.

#IAMTOMMY

 

[Boss_Blue]

EEE SAVES R DAUGTERS FRM TEM MOSLEMS.

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BRITISH NONCES 4 BRITISH KIDZ

 

[zzr45]

I didn't say this government (and indeed that would make no sense as it was the last Government who called and ran the referendum), I said HMG.

As for Corbyn - if he calls for a second referendum and Parliament backs it, that leaves May or her successor in place to run it and deal with the aftermath. If he calls for a GE and wins it, he gets to decide what to do and to implement it. He would be barking mad to choose the former.

Yeah he’d be barking mad to do something really selfless for the country as a politician, wouldn’t he?

 

[MarkK1988]

Yeah he’d be barking mad to do something really selfless for the country as a politician, wouldn’t he?

in the long term though is a Tory government good for the long term

realistically i think he should step down, he had an open goal in the last GE and still couldnt win it.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Corbyn could take off his rain coat and state he wants another referendum. Fact remains there is an act of parliament stating we are leaving this coming March, another referendum would be just advisory? And act Parliament on leaving the EU remains in law!

 

[tsubaki]

Yeah he’d be barking mad to do something really selfless for the country as a politician, wouldn’t he?

What, leave the implementation of the vote in the hands of the people who got us into this mess and whose incompetence in negotiations resulted in where we are now?

That would be stupid, not selfless.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

in the long term though is a Tory government good for the long term

realistically i think he should step down, he had an open goal in the last GE and still couldnt win it.

Eh, it was predicted that May would increase Cameron's small majority from at least 60 MPs, 100 was hinted at! Trouble is people forget that the British media by law has to report honestly and fairly in election purdah they pretty much report what they like outside this period. Corbyns labour was always 2020 at that point, since the ill fated decision by May to hold an election they have been on election footing ever since. And the Tories know so if they care to be honest. Hence why we still have May!

 

[zzr45]

What, leave the implementation of the vote in the hands of the people who got us into this mess and whose incompetence in negotiations resulted in where we are now?

That would be stupid, not selfless.

So it’s stupid to prevent the country going to the dogs just so he gets his turn in power?

Yeah okay.

 

[tsubaki]

So it’s stupid to prevent the country going to the dogs just so he gets his turn in power?

Yeah okay.

You are saying that in order to prevent the country going to the dogs we should take a course of action that leaves the people who have led us to the dogs in charge of what happens .

Or to put it another way, in May 1940 would you have said that the best person to get us out of trouble was Chamberlain?

 

[zzr45]

You are saying that in order to prevent the country going to the dogs we should take a course of action that leaves the people who have led us to the dogs in charge of what happens .

Or to put it another way, in May 1940 would you have said that the best person to get us out of trouble was Chamberlain?

No, I’m not. I’m saying if there was a second referendum on the country’s EU position, pushed forward by the opposition, it would be far better than sitting back and watching things go down in flames so people can come in and act the hero. It’d be far better to stabilise the situation and then see where we are. If that prompts a call for another general election then so be it.

Your comparison to the 2nd World War is so bad that it’s actually laughable. In the scenario you’ve given above the opposition would have sat until there was a swastika flying over Big Ben before they made a peep about changing direction.

Be honest with yourself, you want Brexit to go through so the country goes to absolute pot, so that the Labour Party becomes incumbent for many years to come. Sod the people that suffer. It’s so transparent, utterly sickening and shows the nasty Left for what it actually is, a bunch of power hungry rats with no actual interest in the good of the people, just their own agenda.

 

[tsubaki]

No, I’m not. I’m saying if there was a second referendum on the country’s EU position, pushed forward by the opposition, it would be far better than sitting back and watching things go down in flames so people can come in and act the hero. It’d be far better to stabilise the situation and then see where we are. If that prompts a call for another general election then so be it.

Your comparison to the 2nd World War is so bad that it’s actually laughable. In the scenario you’ve given above the opposition would have sat until there was a swastika flying over Big Ben before they made a peep about changing direction.

Be honest with yourself, you want Brexit to go through so the country goes to absolute pot, so that the Labour Party becomes incumbent for many years to come. Sod the people that suffer. It’s so transparent, utterly sickening and shows the nasty Left for what it actually is, a bunch of power hungry rats with no actual interest in the good of the people, just their own agenda.

Look, at the risk of prolonging a debate it is you who needs to be honest with yourself.

Labour has no chance to push forward a second referendum as it would need a majority in Parliament to do it; if they could do it then they would be in a position to form a Government themselves or at absolute worse win a vote of no confidence and force a GE. Do you really trust Theresa May and this Government to run a second referendum campaign properly when it has been imposed on them like that?

The World War 2 point was - and I am sorry it has gone over your head - is that Chamberlain led this country down a dark path and then insisted he was the man to sort it out. Labour instead chose to oppose the Government, helped bring that Government down and then brought about a National Government that eventually saved the country and won the war. They did not try and bring about change with Chamberlain left in office.

What I want for this country is that people look at things with a bit of realism and make sensible decisions; attacking Corbyn as you are because he doesn't have a majority and wouldn't leave May in charge of a referendum she opposes strikes me as a bit delusional.

 

[zzr45]

Look, at the risk of prolonging a debate it is you who needs to be honest with yourself.

Labour has no chance to push forward a second referendum as it would need a majority in Parliament to do it; if they could do it then they would be in a position to form a Government themselves or at absolute worse win a vote of no confidence and force a GE. Do you really trust Theresa May and this Government to run a second referendum campaign properly when it has been imposed on them like that?

The World War 2 point was - and I am sorry it has gone over your head - is that Chamberlain led this country down a dark path and then insisted he was the man to sort it out. Labour instead chose to oppose the Government, helped bring that Government down and then brought about a National Government that eventually saved the country and won the war. They did not try and bring about change with Chamberlain left in office.

What I want for this country is that people look at things with a bit of realism and make sensible decisions; attacking Corbyn as you are because he doesn't have a majority and wouldn't leave May in charge of a referendum she opposes strikes me as a bit delusional.

????

No. You’re completely cherry picking things here. Even using your own example of 1940, Labour didn’t have the majority but vocalised an opinion that was shared by people on the street, which in turn was shared by elements of those who formed the majority of the house. It was an example of the absurdity of sticking to party politics being trumped by politicians working towards a common goal and in the long run, it being beneficial.

Why exactly would a referendum be led by May? Surely if Labour pushed it through they would have absolutely equal footing, as they did in the last referendum where Corbyn refused to be seen as working with Cameron.

I’m sorry that you keep thinking that you’re making some point here, but it’s only becoming more and more transparent that your little ideology is more important to you than the well being of this country.

Get on with it.

 

[tsubaki]

????

No. You’re completely cherry picking things here. Even using your own example of 1940, Labour didn’t have the majority but vocalised an opinion that was shared by people on the street, which in turn was shared by elements of those who formed the majority of the house. It was an example of the absurdity of sticking to party politics being trumped by politicians working towards a common goal and in the long run, it being beneficial.

Lets look at what you have wrote here.

"Labour didn't have the majority..." - they do not have a majority now either.

".. but vocalised an opinion that was shared by people on the street, which in turn was shared by elements of those who formed the majority of the house" the anti-Chamberlain opposition did not command a majority of the house - Chamberlain actually won the no confidence vote (by 81), and its very unclear whether "the people on the street" wanted Chamberlain out because the state and much of the media had spent nearly 9 months telling them fibs - the people did not know what was going on.

The point was that what Labour (and the Tory rebels) did was refuse to accept Chamberlain (and Halifax FWIW) to lead the country because he was responsible for the disasters of the early part of the war. That refusal led to the search for an alternate leader and formation of an alternate Government, which resulted in an alternate outcome.

What you are proposing is that we can have an alternate outcome with the same government, but against that governments wishes. It is a daft policy.

Why exactly would a referendum be led by May? Surely if Labour pushed it through they would have absolutely equal footing, as they did in the last referendum where Corbyn refused to be seen as working with Cameron.

Theresa May is the PM - if she is still in power then she will be able to determine what the referendum campaign would look like, what the conditions and question would be and how the result would be implemented. If she is not in power then she cannot do any of those things.

I’m sorry that you keep thinking that you’re making some point here, but it’s only becoming more and more transparent that your little ideology is more important to you than the well being of this country.

Get on with it.

With respect, the person who keeps trying to make a tedious point here is you. If you think May or this Government should be left in power to implement a referendum you are calling for, the person who holds contempt for the well being of the country is you.

 

[peteblue]

Look, at the risk of prolonging a debate it is you who needs to be honest with yourself.

Labour has no chance to push forward a second referendum as it would need a majority in Parliament to do it; if they could do it then they would be in a position to form a Government themselves or at absolute worse win a vote of no confidence and force a GE. Do you really trust Theresa May and this Government to run a second referendum campaign properly when it has been imposed on them like that?

The World War 2 point was - and I am sorry it has gone over your head - is that Chamberlain led this country down a dark path and then insisted he was the man to sort it out. Labour instead chose to oppose the Government, helped bring that Government down and then brought about a National Government that eventually saved the country and won the war. They did not try and bring about change with Chamberlain left in office.

What I want for this country is that people look at things with a bit of realism and make sensible decisions; attacking Corbyn as you are because he doesn't have a majority and wouldn't leave May in charge of a referendum she opposes strikes me as a bit delusional.

May is reproducing the Chamberlain piece of paper as we speak....

 

[davmaher]

May is reproducing the Chamberlain piece of paper as we speak....

Unfortunately, there's no Churchill waiting in the wings to bring the country together.The way things are going, the time from when Article 50 was invoked to when we actually "leave" could be longer than the war was, which does seem bizarre.